Had a player last year that had on the new contacts that had a design on them, they looked like a bullseye. Apperantly the kids can see fine through them but are they legal. If the player were to hit his head on the floor and become unconscious, there would be no way for an official, Dr., coach etc... to look at his pupils.

Would you or would you not let this player play?

Which rule would you cite to prevent him from playing?

My initial reponse would be to let him play. There is no rule banning these certain types of contacts, there is no unfair advantage gained by these contacts, and they pose no immediate danger to him or to other players during play. I think you start to tread on dangerous ground if you keep players from playing because something might happen. And even then, you don't know for sure they would pose any additional problem that a "regular" contact wouldn't.

That makes sense. I likened the rule to that of the visor in football. All visors in football must be clear (unless the player has a dr. note) The reason for the clear visor is so that you can see the pupils of the player.

Why would you use a football rule in basketball? If it isn't a rule, it isn't a rule.

OK buddy,

Thanks for your input. It had been extremely helpful!

When checking the pupils, which would consist of us lifting the eye lid if they were uncoscious...we would slide the contact off the eye at that time...

If they were conscious and we needed to check them...ask the player to remove the contact temporarily...if you are having to check their pupils they are going to the bench, they'll have time to put them back in before coming back...

You're welcome! I was simply trying to convey to you that if you start making up rules, you're going to get yourself in trouble in more ways than one. So much for having thick skin...sheesh. :rolleyes:

I agree that there's nothing in the rules to prevent wearing them now, but maybe this is somthing the states and NFHS need to be made aware of so we can get a definite ruling on it. I wouldn't think, judging by most of the other uniform regulations, that this would be something they would want to see on the basketball floor.

You just never know!

I agree, but until it is addressed formally in the rules, there's not much we can do about it.

The kid played, it was just something that we hadn't seen. We didn't say a word to him. I just wanted to see what everyone else thought. I wouldn't make up a rule just to make up a rule.

Rule 3-5 allows the referee leeway to ban any equipment that he <b>thinks</b> might be confusing to other players or not appropriate to the game of basketball. Iow, it's strictly up to the R's judgement whether to allow or disallow something like trick contacts that aren't specifically covered under the rules.

Having said that, it's also a good idea for the R to check his judgement out with his association or state body after the game.

If the reason for your concern is that you think the lenses might prevent you from looking at his pupils, I think you're off base. You should never looking at someone's pupils in that way, period. That is strictly for a doctor or parent or principal to handle. Definitely not me!!!

If I believe a player is unconscious, he or she is unconscious, period. Now, if they get a doctor's note then they can play again. I'm going by a simple determination, is the player responsive, are his/her eyes open, etc. I'm not lifting eyelids no way no how. As Juulie said, that's for a doctor or administrator not me. If in my non-medical opinion a player is unconscious, that player is unconscious and I'm not letting them continue. Safety of the player is paramount and I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Since when is it a basketball officials responsibility to render a medical opinion on fitness of a player? I want NO PART of that determination. If there's a question of unconsciousness, get the proper medical attention through game management and let them render an opinion. Talk about opening a can of worms...can you imagine what kind of questions that would spawn on the Federation exam?

I'm just saying, for example, if A1 goes up for a shot/rebound/loose ball whatever, and gets hit in the head, falls to the floor, or falls to the floor and hits his head, and appears to me to be unconscious (eyes closed, not moving, non-responsive), that player is not coming back into my game without a note from a doctor saying he can. Rule 2, Section 8, Art. 5 Officials' Additional Duties, The officials SHALL "determine when a player is apparently unconscious. The player may not return to play in the game without written authorization from a physician (MD/DO)". That gives an official the ability to make that call.

"gets hit in the head, falls to the floor, or falls to the floor and hits his head, and appears to me to be unconscious (eyes closed, not moving, non-responsive), that player is not coming back into my game"

Exactly. No need to see his eyes/contacts here. Any one of the three conditions you stated (eyes closed, not moving, non-responsive)after a whack on the noggin buys him a bench pass the remainder of the game if I'm the R.

I agree.

Of course, all this has still got nuthin' to do with the original question asked in this thread--i.e. whether the contacts described are illegal or not in the first place. :)

Except that, when asked, the original post-er said that he thought they might be since it would make it difficult to determine whether or not someone was unconscious.

I guess the only thing that comes close to addressing the contacts is Rule 3-5 which deals with Team Members Equipment/Apparel. Although none of the articles address the contacts directly, the first statement, "The referee shall not any team member to wear any equipment or apparel which, in his/her JUDGMENT, is dangerous or CONFUSING to other players or is not appropriate." I guess if someone from the opposing team were to question/complain about the contacts, it would be within the official's right to determine if they fit the definition of confusing items and make the player change them if he/she wanted to play. This is the closest I can come to finding a rule addressing it. I know there are some weird colored contacts out there so it could lead us down a slippery slope if we start inspecting eyes for "confusing contacts". I must admit we have an official in our board who, for every girls game she officiates, makes all the players line up before the game and inspects their fingernails and ponytails "in accordance with Rule 3-7". Drives her partners crazy but she'll never change as long as that rule is there.

I always check for nails, although I don't do the line-up thing like a cleat check in soccer. Long nails are extremely dangerous, and i can't imagine a coach letting the girls play with them uncut. I've disallowed players a couple of times because of nails.

If these become somewhat common, I suspect the NFHS will rule, much as it did during the "flashing light shoe" fad several years ago.

Would you let players wear sunglasses while playing?

The point I was making was that if the R sez get 'em out, the player has to remove 'em. Strictly the R's judgement. Of course, the R in that player's next game might OK 'em too.

Or American flags.......or compression shorts, do-rags, commemorative players' #s, undershirts, elastics on wrists, wristbands worn on biceps....or whatever else comes up that the FED wants to specify or identify.

What's the flashing shoe rule?
Thanks.
mick

The FED even threw a case book play in on that one, Mick---3.5SitC(a).

Thou shall not wear shoes that have lights shining off and on. :D

Cool.
Thanks, JR.
mick

I was at the eye doctors getting my contacts. While I was waiting they had an article about a new type of contact lens that baseball players were trying out. It was called red eye, it is suppose to help you in the movement of the ball coming in to the strike zone. I suppose you can use it also for basketball. The article went further to say that the lens will help you with any fast movements when trying to detect them. Maybe I should get a pair for all the calls I have missed so far this season. HA HA

Cool idea!! Glad to see you back on the board, Dave.