Any other states utilizing a different mechanic other than calling and indicating the type of foul and pointing in the direction of the ball? In Tx, we have been told to use the player control mechanic and verbalize that it is a team control foul. When reporting to the table, we once again use the PC mechanic, point and describe the foul (block, etc).

thoughts?

We were told not to use any special mechanic for a team control foul. I do not agree with that way of thinking, but I do not make the rules. I would not be surprised if someone changes that later in the season. Right now we do exactly what Referee Magazine said to do a month or two ago.

Peace

One concern that has been raised with using the player control mechanic is insuring strong communication with the scorekeepers. Many will see the PC call and assume the foul is on the player with the ball. It will be our job to insure they are fully aware of who the foul was called on.

In Georgia, we are using the Women's punch-fist-extended-at-chest level mechanic at the spot of foul. At the table we can further communicate block, push or player control.

I completely agree. At least at the college level the people at the table tend to have a better understanding of the game and the NCAA has a signal. At the HS level you might get some kid who is thrown at the position and they will not know what a team control foul is or might assume we are going to be shooting. I just wish our state would come up with a signal to avoid confusion so we will not have correctable errors.

Peace

In my opinion, Georgia got this one right.

Not that my opinion means anything....

Ga has also extended the leads coverage to the sideline
below the FT line extended like the W. college game.

Why not change all the rules to Women's basketball? :D

Peace

Mechanics as stated by Ronny Mulkey is how it is also done by Fiba officials, cheers

Why not change all the rules to Women's basketball? :D

Peace [/QUOTE]

Rut,

Good question. Our Commissioner for the State is a Women's official and all his horses and all his men are, too. A lot of the "better" officials here are also involved with the Women's side.

Mulk

I was told last week that Georgia decided that the Lead would have the sideline OOB call up to Free Throw line extended. This is different from Women's college. Is anyone else doing this and is it better?

can't see the lead calling the sideline up to the free throw line extended.....who is watching the post...you have a trail over there to take care of that...i do think they do something like that in women ncaa though, not sure!! i have heard something about it! i've never done it so don't know if it would be better, but doesn't seem like it, because you would have to rely on knowing your partner has switched from sideline to post when you switch from post to sideline... kinda crazy to me!!!! :)

Well the Women's mechanics has the Trail officials calling in the post when the Lead has the ball outside the post in the Lead's expanded area. Now if you ask me this is why I believe I see many calls in the paint not called very well in the Women's game. It seems like the Lead and the Trail are trying to figure out who has a call and sometimes nothing is called. When I worked Women's basketball for a brief time, it was hard to figure out what your partner was doing in those mechanics. As compared to the Men's mechanics and NF mechanics which gives the Lead much less to do. Even the change a few years from the NF that expanded is not used to the letter by many officials I work with because the Trail has a better look at many plays near the FT line.

Peace

But in two-whistle, lead is responsible for the sideline on OOB calls, so why wouldn't that happen? It just seems logical to expand the area, although it would have to be discussed thoroughly in pre-game meetings. Seems L would have to slide further out on the baseline to get proper angle, T would have to be disciplined to look off ball. This would expand the 'GRAY' area where there would be more double calls.

In three-whistle, this would be a moot point.

In NCAA-W, the trail is still responsible for the sideline OOB call, even though it's the L's area of coverage. If the T doesn't see it because they're watching their area, or the post play, they can ask for help from the L, because the L would be on-ball in that case.

As far as confusion between T and L as to who's watching what, I haven't found that to be too much of a problem. The mechanic is for the L to "square up" to the play to show the T they now have on-ball, and that tells the T to cover the post play. For example, say the ball rotates to C's side and stays; C stays with the matchup. L rotates over, but continues to look in the paint and cover the post play, while the new T continues to watch on-ball. Once the L is ball-side, they will continue to watch post play if the old C/new T has a count or a drive. Once there is no immediate action, the L will "square up" to the play, which tells the T they now have off-ball action while the L has on-ball.

It sounds a little strange at first, but I guess like anything, once you get used to it, it's pretty straight forward and easy.

Is defenitely confusing!!
 

If L is watching ball outside and is squared up to it, T knows he/she has post play so i watching post...ball goes oob on sideline, you said it's T's call....how in the world would they know the ball went out first of all, and then who it went off of in the second place???? That just seems like it would be complicated... who should blow the whistle?? if it's T's line they should if they by chance see it out of their peripheral vision...it just seems a little harder than it should be to me!! But like you said it definitely sounds strange at first, would have to try it!!!

Re: Is defenitely confusing!!
 

It may be easy, but as I've said 100 times, it's not efficient. The women's (and NBA's) coverages routinely require two sets of eyes to shift their fields of vision in common situations where the men's coverages require only one shift (or none).

Here's what I mean. Common play. A1 with the ball outside the 3-point arc and below the FT line extended. A1 passes the ball to A2, who is on the block closer to A1. When A1's defender collapses on A2, A2 passes back out to A1 for the open 3-pointer.

With the women's mechanics, this entire play is in the Lead's primary. At the beginning, you have the Lead watching the arc and the T watching the post. After A1's initial pass, the L shifts to the post and T shifts to the arc. After A2 passes back to A1, L shifts again to the arc and the T shifts back to the post.

In the men's coverage, neither T nor L has to shift the field of vision at all in this play and the Lead is already ready to officiate the ensuing rebounding action.

There are several examples like this one. (For example, take the above play, except A2 has the ball first, passes out and gets it back.) But I won't belabor it. Men's coverages are, IMHO, not only better, but much better than the Women's/NBA coverages.

It may sound bad, but it happens very often in the Men's game as well. Ball goes OOB on the endline opposite the L. It's the Lead's whistle even tho s/he may not even have been looking at the play.

Don't sound so surprised.

The NBA can afford to have that coverage area. The rules are different and the style of play is different. The officials at the NBA are trained and work hundreds of games to get their system. I think even the best college officials are not all working for the same conference or have the same level of training. I even watch the NCAA Women's tournament and you see some basic mistakes which I partly attribute to the coverage areas. You get a play on the perimeter and the ball goes to the lane and no one blows the whistle. I do not like the coverage area at the very least for Boy's basketball. The post players in the Boys game tend to be very physical and I think taking away the Lead from watching those players is not the best way to go. Once again, this is just one man's opinion.

Peace

Re: Re: Is defenitely confusing!!
 

Now, Chuck, if I've told you once, I've told you a million times - don't exaggerate.

But, don't you shift your eyes more than that? What about when a player passes to a teammate still in your primary? Or a player dribbles from your primary to another area? Or a pass comes in to a cutter in your area while you're watching the post players? We're moving our vision constantly. I agree it would be nice to focus on one set of players, like your example, but it seems as though we are always moving our eyes.

In our case, the primary rebounding resposibilities fall on the C and T, usually because they have a better angle on the ubiquitous "over-the-back", er, I mean the pushes from behind. ;)

You beat me to it. That's the exact example I was going to give.

As far as which is coverage is better, it's obviously up to better minds than mine. Each one has it's good points and bad; apparently the powers-that-be feel that the women's mechanics work for the women's game. Is it because there's less posting up? Or more cutters to watch? Or, just because they want to be a little different than the men's side? Who knows. All I know is it works when everyone's on the same page. The tough part for me is going from college one night to HS the next and keeping things straight. But, I guess, that's why they pay us the big bucks, right?

Re: Re: Is defenitely confusing!!
 

Chuck

I am going to disagree that men's is better. While it does take some coordination, what it does do is out the closest official to the ball make the call. The off ball calls are made by an official farther away but the most critical calls at the ball are made by the closest. The off ball calls are actually better since the official who is watching has a broader and better field of vision.

I have done both ways and prefer NBA. If your in a zone then maybe the men's works better in one-on one ball and matchups like the NBA it is clearly better