NFHS Part I, NO ANSWERS, available via email - Page 6

Jurassic Referee · #76 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 18, 2006, 06:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Memorizing answers does not in my opinion prove you know what are actually in the rules.

We agree on that.

That was one of my points all along.

You're only cheating yourself imo.

And I'm repeating myself now. Time to drop this one and let 'em do what they were gonna do anyway. Half-hour to game time.

M&M Guy · #77 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 18, 2006, 06:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The NCAA has an open book test and it was said very openly that the test could be taken by anyone with help. It was encouraged and the exact words of Hank Nichols, "I do not care if you take the test with 6 people looking over your shoulder." NCAA officials have to pass the test in order to work post season. They do not consider it a lack of integrity to pass the test with help. I took open book tests in college and it was understood that you would work with other students to complete the test.

Whether someone gets a test score has nothing to do with the integrity of an official as it relates to getting off a game or how well someone works. The test is to get the official to look at the rules. I want people who not only understand the rules, but know how they are to be applied. Many of the questions do not ask common sense real world questions. If you only pick up the rulebook, casebook or handbook at one time of the year and never pick it up again. I am much more concerned about that official.

Hey, this is my opinion and many folks I know share it. I am not going to convince anyone here either way.

Peace

Right now you aren't saying anything I disagree with. The open book tests are specifically designed for people to go through the book and learn the rules.

What I have a problem with are the officials that just turn in their test with answers they've copied from their fellow officials, or off the answer sheet someone supplies here. It's the shortcut of not looking through the book, not discussing the answers and reasons with their fellow officials, and not learning anything. It's just the shortcut of turning in the answer sheet to the state to fulfill the requirement, without going through any effort to learn the rules.

That's what has been discussed here - people posting answers where they can be used by the ethically-challenged. Most of us will not use the answers in that way, but why give anyone the opportunity? Do you want to work with anyone who operates that way?

icallfouls · #78 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 18, 2006, 08:35pm

The actual test is more about reading than rules knowledge on some questions. It seems that the words, "and & or" are interspersed throughout and serve more to trip you up, although I might be the only one that thinks this.

tjones1 · #79 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 18, 2006, 09:01pm

I'll have to admit, again, this year I've gave out the only answers to Part I.... true or false....sorry!

fonzzy07 · #80 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 18, 2006, 09:01pm

Please send to [email protected] thank you

JRutledge · #81 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 18, 2006, 11:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Right now you aren't saying anything I disagree with. The open book tests are specifically designed for people to go through the book and learn the rules.

What I have a problem with are the officials that just turn in their test with answers they've copied from their fellow officials, or off the answer sheet someone supplies here. It's the shortcut of not looking through the book, not discussing the answers and reasons with their fellow officials, and not learning anything. It's just the shortcut of turning in the answer sheet to the state to fulfill the requirement, without going through any effort to learn the rules.

This is the problem I have. You and others are putting so much emphasis on the test. It takes years to understand the rules and working games. Then during down time you read the rulebook, read the casebook, look over rules tests, read plays in the internet (if that is your thing), talk to fellow officials about situations that happen and listen to other officials talk about situations that happen to them. There are a ton of things you need to do to fully understand the rules. Taking a test is not going to prove that from my point of view.

I have a group of friends (about 10 people) that for the last 5 years or so we always get together and go over the test. Two of us go on a consistent basis go over the test before this meeting and find every rule reference to every rule. As we go through the test me and the person who hosts the little party give every rule reference we can find on every test question. We also discuss issue that might not be so obvious to the question. It is clear that some come to the meeting getting the answers. Usually those that do that are asking a lot of questions for clarification. We also have a few newer officials that might not be aware of the idiosyncrasies of the rules (like when the ball is at the disposal of a FT shooter--this was a debate based on a question in this year's test). I do a lot of work to get this information, but I do not care one bit if someone is helped by the information we provide or give them. I would hope that they would take the information and start reading deeper in the rulebook considering that many of the questions almost completely ignored by the NF test.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

That's what has been discussed here - people posting answers where they can be used by the ethically-challenged. Most of us will not use the answers in that way, but why give anyone the opportunity? Do you want to work with anyone who operates that way?

First of all I cannot sit in judgment of someone that I do not see what they do in their spare time. I want to work with people that have a good understanding of the rules, but not only a quotable knowledge of the rules. In my opinion the tests only teach you what is actually in the rulebook rather than how to apply the rules in real life situations. That is just my opinion.

Peace

dblref · #82 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 19, 2006, 06:18am

Well, for the first time in many years, I won't have to worry about taking the exam. After my latest visit to the ortho doctor regarding my left knee, I have decided that it is time to hang up the stripes & whistle rather than risk having to replace the knee. I'll miss it, but I will still visit the forum just to read the b*tching & moaning going on.

M&M Guy · #83 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 19, 2006, 09:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is the problem I have. You and others are putting so much emphasis on the test.

Again, I agree wholeheartedly with everything you've said. Getting together to discuss the test, forcing yourself to go through the rules to find the proper references, talking amongst yourselves as to how the question should be answered based on the rules and cases - these are all the right way to do it.

But you still missed my point. My emphasis is not on the test itself or the results, but how the results are obtained. The test is meant to make you look through the books. I don't care what score someone gets on the test. But I do wonder about the person that just copies down answers so they can send in the test to fulfill their requirement. There was a person in our association that did this - copied the answers from someone else - and then bragged about getting 100%. Huh? This is not the type of person I would want to work with.

The emphasis isn't on the test, but on the person. We are just trying to make it a little harder on the people that want to take the shortcuts by not automatically supplying all the answers at one time. If we can make it just hard enough so that one person decides it's not worth it, and does the test the right way, then I would consider that a success.

Dan_ref · #84 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 19, 2006, 09:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dblref

Well, for the first time in many years, I won't have to worry about taking the exam. After my latest visit to the ortho doctor regarding my left knee, I have decided that it is time to hang up the stripes & whistle rather than risk having to replace the knee. I'll miss it, but I will still visit the forum just to read the b*tching & moaning going on.

Sorry to hear that...I mean about the knee, not about you staying around

Good luck

IREFU2 · #85 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 19, 2006, 11:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

OK, Starting a new thread here. If you would like to receive the NFHS, PART 1 Exam, in PDF format, you can either post your email here or email me through the board. I will send out one email DAILY, sometime after 11PM EASTERN time. THIS TEST DOES NOT INCLUDE THE ANSWERS. YOU WILL HAVE TO GET THOSE ON YOUR OWN.

I will place a post in the forum each time I have completed a mailing, and also so that I know where to start collecting address for the next mailing.

I sent you a PM!