Pre-game crew meeting

[M&M Guy]

It's been fun watching the bickering going on, especially since we all essentially agree. Imagine if we didn't...

Anyway, I guess the point I was trying to make, probably directed more at the newbies, is to not get locked into a list. Yes, mick, a list is a great place to start. But the lists might be different between a D-1 game and a freshman girls game. And, by extension, the pre-game will be different between those games as well. I have had a (well-meaning) partner before an 8th grade game go over a list on the back of a game board, which included who should call shot clock violations. Huh? To me, my partner was not getting ready for THAT game, he was just trying to go through the motions, which included going through the motions of the pre-game list. Each game is different, therefore, each pre-game will be different as well. A list is a good place to start, but THAT game is what's important, and the pre-game discussion should reflect it. Maybe it involves having two or three different lists, depending on the level of game you're working? Or, no list at all? That's an individual choice, I guess.

So, what CD are y'all talkin' about?

[Bad Zebra]

Regardless of the opinions, this is GREAT info gentlemen. Thanks for the input. Exactly what I was hoping for!

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by Bad Zebra
Regardless of the opinions, this is GREAT info gentlemen. Thanks for the input. Exactly what I was hoping for!

Oh, oh. Are you saying this forum is a great resource?

Shhhh...don't let it get out. You'll ruin our reputation.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by M&M Guy
It's been fun watching the bickering going on, especially since we all essentially agree. Imagine if we didn't...

Anyway, I guess the point I was trying to make, probably directed more at the newbies, is to not get locked into a list. Yes, mick, a list is a great place to start. But the lists might be different between a D-1 game and a freshman girls game. And, by extension, the pre-game will be different between those games as well. I have had a (well-meaning) partner before an 8th grade game go over a list on the back of a game board, which included who should call shot clock violations. Huh? To me, my partner was not getting ready for THAT game, he was just trying to go through the motions, which included going through the motions of the pre-game list. Each game is different, therefore, each pre-game will be different as well. A list is a good place to start, but THAT game is what's important, and the pre-game discussion should reflect it. Maybe it involves having two or three different lists, depending on the level of game you're working? Or, no list at all? That's an individual choice, I guess.

So, what CD are y'all talkin' about?

What gets me is driving an hour & a half to a game through a snow storm in the first week of February & someone wants to discuss rules changes or where we should be standing during time outs. Going through a list puts the pregame process on auto-pilot IMO, and the people listening to the list tend to just nod their heads saying "yep...yep...yep...".

btw...I don't know what he's talking about either, I was just nodding my head going "...yep...yep...yep...".

[icallfouls]

Whether or not you use a list, what is important is that you talk about the things that allow you to officiate your best. Another thing, no two pregames are the same. They are usually specific to the R for that given night and are affected by, the crew, the teams, the time of year, etc. So if you are the R, U1, or U2 it is important to mention those things that help you be effective.

I have been involved in pregames when the R just dictates his expectations of the crew and that is it. If they don't cover something you would like to, then bring it up. If someone isn't interested, review it with the other official. If that doesn't work, a little personal pregame can help.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by icallfouls
Whether or not you use a list, what is important is that you talk about the things that allow you to officiate your best. Another thing, no two pregames are the same. They are usually specific to the R for that given night and are affected by, the crew, the teams, the time of year, etc. So if you are the R, U1, or U2 it is important to mention those things that help you be effective.

I have been involved in pregames when the R just dictates his expectations of the crew and that is it. If they don't cover something you would like to, then bring it up. If someone isn't interested, review it with the other official. If that doesn't work, a little personal pregame can help.

This IS how it seems to be, but sometimes it's frustrating for me. When I'm U (two-whistle) and the R wants to pre-game about something that happened last week, or whether the Sox or the Cubs are gonna win the Super Bowl, I feel cheated. THen when a sitch comes up in the game, I want to say, "Hey if we'd talked about this ahead of time, this wouldn't be happening now!" So what can a U do, when the R doesn't take the lead appropriately in the pre-game?

PS, icallfouls, how was your summer? Do you want to work for me this month? Two-whistle training?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rainmaker

This IS how it seems to be, but sometimes it's frustrating for me. When I'm U (two-whistle) and the R wants to pre-game about something that happened last week, or whether the Sox or the Cubs are gonna win the Super Bowl, I feel cheated. THen when a sitch comes up in the game, I want to say, "Hey if we'd talked about this ahead of time, this wouldn't be happening now!" So what can a U do, when the R doesn't take the lead appropriately in the pre-game?

"Yeah, the Cub Sox have a good shot at the Stanley Cup this year unless their head corn-popper gets injured...btw...how are we going to handle block/charge in the paint tonight?"

[icallfouls]

Originally posted by rainmaker

This IS how it seems to be, but sometimes it's frustrating for me. When I'm U (two-whistle) and the R wants to pre-game about something that happened last week, or whether the Sox or the Cubs are gonna win the Super Bowl, I feel cheated. THen when a sitch comes up in the game, I want to say, "Hey if we'd talked about this ahead of time, this wouldn't be happening now!" So what can a U do, when the R doesn't take the lead appropriately in the pre-game?

PS, icallfouls, how was your summer? Do you want to work for me this month? Two-whistle training?

When dealing with a fellow referee that isn't quite giving 100% in the pre-game, it is sometimes helpful to phrase your questions in a way such that it appears that you are looking for advice. For example, "what would you have done in this situation that happened to me?" Or maybe ask for an interpretation, you know how much referees like to sound like know it alls.

Additionally, if I have never worked with a crew or crew member, I suggest that we meet a couple of minutes earlier than usual. I flat out tell them that I need the extra time to get game ready. I have yet to be refused or have a crew be late.

Rainmaker, email me your dates. Summer was good, I was on the radar for a couple of D1 opportunities, maybe next year.

[brianp134]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Had mine a coupla years now.

I got mine this summer at camp. Haven't made it all the way thru it. Interesting stuff though

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by rainmaker
This IS how it seems to be, but sometimes it's frustrating for me. When I'm U (two-whistle) and the R wants to pre-game about something that happened last week, or whether the Sox or the Cubs are gonna win the Super Bowl, I feel cheated. THen when a sitch comes up in the game, I want to say, "Hey if we'd talked about this ahead of time, this wouldn't be happening now!" So what can a U do, when the R doesn't take the lead appropriately in the pre-game?

This has happened to me as well, and I've felt uncomfortable trying to tell the (usually) more veteran partner we need to talk about a few game items. Dan and icallfouls have good suggestions about trying to steer the conversation back to the pre-game. Don't be afraid to ask questions. I've been told if I don't ask the questions, then it's just as much my fault if we don't have an adequate pre-game. Of course, if you're the veteran, you can take charge even if you aren't the R.

Fortunately, the higher level the game, the more the supervisors want, and require, a good pre-game. I have one supervisor that tells us if he hears that a crew didn't have a pre-game, that entire crew might lose their next assignment.