The Test

[Jurassic Referee]

Stripes, I understand you perfectly now.

Drama? Nope. As far as I'm concerned, it's simply a matter of ethics, not drama. That's just my own personal opinion though.

I just don't agree with you, or your philosophy, or with anybody that may happen to share it. I never will. I also recognize that it's a waste of time to debate this further with you....so I won't.

[JRutledge]

JR,

Write all the officials up that violate your code of ethics. Then maybe this you will get everyone on the same page. Considering that everyone's state that you are not licensed in will give a damn what you think.

This is not about ethics, this is about different systems. I took tests in college where we could take home the test and discuss the test with fellow students. That is how I look at our testing system as it relates to the Part 1 exam. If our state wanted the test to be a secret, then they would not give us our scores online and they would not mail the test out to everyone to take on their own time. I will be attending a meeting where the test will be talked about tomorrow. Now when I was in school, talking about any answer was cheating. So if these tests are so important, we should never discuss the tests at all until every state or organization in the country has taken them. If the scores are so vital to assignments, discussing just one answer might put someone over the top and get them a state final. In our point system it could be one or two answers that will give an official the most points, so discussing any answer would be cheating (if I use your logic).

There are many that will never agree on this issue. I am still shocked that it comes up every year and it is such a heated discussion.

Peace

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by JRutledge
JR,

Write all the officials up that violate your code of ethics. Then maybe this you will get everyone on the same page. Considering that everyone's state that you are not licensed in will give a damn what you think.

This is not about ethics, this is about different systems. I took tests in college where we could take home the test and discuss the test with fellow students. That is how I look at our testing system as it relates to the Part 1 exam. If our state wanted the test to be a secret, then they would not give us our scores online and they would not mail the test out to everyone to take on their own time. I will be attending a meeting where the test will be talked about tomorrow. Now when I was in school, talking about any answer was cheating. So if these tests are so important, we should never discuss the tests at all until every state or organization in the country has taken them. If the scores are so vital to assignments, discussing just one answer might put someone over the top and get them a state final. In our point system it could be one or two answers that will give an official the most points, so discussing any answer would be cheating (if I use your logic).

There are many that will never agree on this issue. I am still shocked that it comes up every year and it is such a heated discussion.

Peace

I gotta agree with Jurassic insofar as those who have the test answers because they are authorized to have them for a specific purpose. They have a responsibility as conservators of copywritten material.

Those who have the answers because their dutchy conducts its test before another, if they would avoid being caught in a tangled web, would do well to just hold on to the information - if they can't guarantee, to themselves and their God, it will not be misused.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker


I gotta agree with Jurassic insofar as those who have the test answers because they are authorized to have them for a specific purpose. They have a responsibility as conservators of copywritten material.

Those who have the answers because their dutchy conducts its test before another, if they would avoid being caught in a tangled web, would do well to just hold on to the information - if they can't guarantee, to themselves and their God, it will not be misused.

Copywritten material?

First of all my state throws out test questions every year in every test bacause the NF either writes the questions poorly or the question is confusing. I am sure some states take the information and do not throw out questions at all and those people have to live with the consequences of what they answer. Once again, if you do not want to violate any rules in your state, do not read this posts that involve the test. It is really simple. Most officials I know do not even know this place exsists or that they can get answers of any kind on the internet. I am sure that is the case where everyone else lives. Some officials I know do not even use email, so what difference does it make?

Peace

[assignmentmaker]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge
[B]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker




Copywritten material?

Yes. It says "Copyrighted and Published in 2005 by the National Federation of State High School Associations." It's property.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker


Yes. It says "Copyrighted and Published in 2005 by the National Federation of State High School Associations." It's property.

Giving the answers is not going to violate copyright law.

Peace

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Giving the answers is not going to violate copyright law.

Peace

The four fair use factors:
What is the character of the use?
What is the nature of the work to be used?
How much of the work will you use?
What effect would this use have on the market for the original or for permissions if the use were widespread?

May we rely on your advice about copyright?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker


The four fair use factors:
What is the character of the use?
What is the nature of the work to be used?
How much of the work will you use?
What effect would this use have on the market for the original or for permissions if the use were widespread?

May we rely on your advice about copyright?

Why has there never been a lawsuit that anyone can reference? Every year I have seen test answers given all over the internet and I have never heard of a lawsuit. I guess you would know.

Peace

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Why has there never been a lawsuit that anyone can reference? Every year I have seen test answers given all over the internet and I have never heard of a lawsuit. I guess you would know.

Peace

So, may we rely on your counsel?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker


So, may we rely on your counsel?

Do not turn this on me. I am not the one that claimed there were copyright laws violated. Where is your evidence? Simply quoting information is not violating copyright law. If it is, then show us some case law and precedent to show that?

Just saying something on the internet is not going to make it true.

Peace

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Do not turn this on me. I am not the one that claimed there were copyright laws violated. Where is your evidence? Simply quoting information is not violating copyright law. If it is, then show us some case law and precedent to show that?

Just saying something on the internet is not going to make it true.

Peace

But you are the one claiming . . . or not claiming . . . that there is no copyright violation involved. I didn't say there was. I said the material is copywritten. I said that those who have the material legally, as I do, have a responsibility to act in conformity with copyright law. You said this can't be a problem because you don't see any instances of it's being a problem. Well, maybe. But you don't want us to rely on your representation.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker


But you are the one claiming . . . or not claiming . . . that there is no copyright violation involved. I didn't say there was. I said the material is copywritten. I said that those who have the material legally, as I do, have a responsibility to act in conformity with copyright law. You said this can't be a problem because you don't see any instances of it's being a problem. Well, maybe. But you don't want us to rely on your representation.

You are the one making the claim copyright laws are being violated. Prove that is a fact. Until then I stand by the fact that there is no violation of copyright laws to simply put "true or false" on any website. I have been here a long time and I have never seen that argument made by anyone but you.

Peace

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by JRutledge

You are the one making the claim copyright laws are being violated. Prove that is a fact. Until then I stand by the fact that there is no violation of copyright laws to simply put "true or false" on any website. I have been here a long time and I have never seen that argument made by anyone but you.

Peace

True. Or false.

Which part of 'I didn't say copyright laws were being violated by 'putting true or false' on any website' don't you understand?

I said that those who have the test, and the answers, legally " . . . have a responsibility as conservators of copywritten material."

How do I know that? Because I have made a living in part via intellectual property? Nah. Because it says 'copyright' on the test. What is fair use for those of us who have the test legally? I'm not even _trying_ to tell you. I'm just raising consciousness.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

True. Or false.

Which part of 'I didn't say copyright laws were being violated by 'putting true or false' on any website' don't you understand?

I said that those who have the test, and the answers, legally " . . . have a responsibility as conservators of copywritten material."

How do I know that? Because I have made a living in part via intellectual property? Nah. Because it says 'copyright' on the test. What is fair use for those of us who have the test legally? I'm not even _trying_ to tell you. I'm just raising consciousness.

Could you produce one court case dealing specifically with the internet that would make it illegal for people on the internet to discuss this test or copyrighted material?

Peace

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Could you produce one court case dealing specifically with the internet that would make it illegal for people on the internet to discuss this test or copyrighted material?

Peace

"Could you produce one court case dealing specifically with the internet that would make it illegal for people on the internet to discuss this test or copyrighted material?"


It depends on what you mean by 'discuss'. If you quote some (small) element of copyrighted material as part of a review or for teaching purposes, among other things, that may be alright. If you provide entire questions and answers, that may not be alright.

Brad Templeton (http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html) notes: "Fair use is a complex doctrine meant to allow certain valuable social purposes. Ask yourself why you are republishing what you are posting and why you couldn't have just rewritten it in your own words."

If you reproduce the Fed test and the answers here in this forum, I'll be glad to forward it to the them for you.