I cant seem to find in the NCAA rule book where it says when the shot clock starts. Does it start on contact or team control??

The clock should start when a player inbounds legally touches the ball. Rule 2-13-5.

Peace

2-13-5, Duties of the shot clock operator

Start the timing device when a player in bounds legally touches or is touched by the ball on a throw-in or when a team initially gains possession from a jump ball, an unsuccessful try for goal or when possession is gained
of a loose ball after a jump ball or unsuccessful try for goal.

So what happens in the situation?

A1 passes the ball to A2 in the back court. It is touched but not controlled by A2.

So the above is saying the shot clock would start on contact of the ball by A2? We would not being our 10 second count until A2 has gained control or his team has control. (NCAA 9-10-Art. 1 says inbounds player (and team) shall not be in continous control of ball that is in back court for 10 consecutive seconds). Correct or not correct?

Let say it takes A2 five seconds to gain control of the ball. The shot clock would read 25 seconds. Would your 10 second back court count could end with 15 seconds on the shot clock?

One has nothing to do with the other.
 

Separate the shot clock and the 10 second count. These things are not one in the same.

Correct.

Not in a men's game. . . ;)

Yes.


While they are not the same by rule, they are very often the same in practice. Usually, the player who receives the inbound pass establishes control immediately; either by catching the ball or starting a dribble. Therefore, in most backcourt throw-in situations, the 10 second count should expire when the shot clock shows 25 seconds (Men's) or 20 seconds (Women's).

That's correct, which is why it's always a good idea to look at the shot clock on the throw-in to make sure it started properly. And to make sure you do not automatically blow the whistle at 25 seconds (men's) when A is still in the back court.

Of course, there is no 10 second count in NCAAW, so this is all moot in that situation.

If the ball is passed inbounds and B1 is the first to touch the ball, the shot clock should start. This really applies if the clock was started preiviously during team A's possession.

Good point....of course Mr Thunda needs to fix his example...in that example we would have a 10 second violation when the shot clock is at 20 seconds, not 15.

Thanks for the correction MR. Dan.

Mr THUNDA

Which is just another reason I should follow my own tagline and just talk about men's rules. LOL

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I have no idea what point you're trying to make here. The shot clock starts whenever the inbounds pass touches any player from either team inbounds, right? So why does it matter if the "clock was started preiviously ;) during team A's possession"?

If you believe that you are being a jerk than that might say more about you than this conversation. :D

My point is simply that the starting of the shot clock and the starting of the game clock are not one in the same as it relates to if you have a 10 second violation.

:)

I got corrected too! ;)

One point that I was trying to make is. The Coach for team B could be screaming at you because the shot clock has already rolled off ten seconds when he looks at it. When actually team A only had control of the ball for 10 seconds. Common sense would say that there was a back court violation. Which I could see a coach assuming if he did not pay attention to when the player/team control actually started.

This is off topic but to my understanding the NBA which has different rules and mechanics use the non visual count on the back court count and use the shot clock for verification of a 8 second back court violation. Thats why I was really wondering.

I don't know about the nba mechancs but I do agree that if that shot clock gets down to 25 with A still in the backcourt coach B is going to let you know about it and he will not care about the rules. He just wants the ball back.

(Maybe this needs to get added to that huge "Most misunderstood list"...nah, it's got enough things on it already.)

The game clock starts when the ball is touched inbounds by a player on the court.

According to the rule that Dan posted earlier, the shot clock starts when the ball is touched inbounds by a player on the court.

Why aren't these the same. . .?

That's correct and the 8 second count starts when the ball is touched inbounds, not when a player on the court gains control.

Why?

Because in the NBA, team control begins when the inbounder has the ball for the throw-in. So as soon the ball is touched by an offensive player in the backcourt, the 8 second count begins (since there is already team control).

If the ball is first touched by a defender, then I believe a loose ball situation is created and there is no longer any team control, so the count would not be started. I think. :)

this is ot but I wonder, do you in the US have 30 second shot clock and 10 seconds half court? Cause it's 24 and 8 in FIBA (and NBA, right?)

Pro rules are 24/8
NCAA mens is 35/10
NCAA womens is 30 with no count in the backcourt.
NFHS (High school) is no shot clock and 10 second count in the backcourt. However, some states have adopted a shot clock for HS games, usually based on the ncaa mens or womens version.