Final Draft Misunderstood Rules

[SamIAm]

13) If a blind screen is set on a stationary defender, the defender must be given one normal step to change direction and attempt to avoid contact. If a screen is set on a moving defender, the defender gets a minimum of one step and a maximum of two steps, depending on the speed and distance of the defender.

I think there is not a maximum number of steps concerning setting a screen.

[BillyMac]

Note to SamIAm:

Please see Rule 4 Definitions, Section 39 Screens, Article 5 Screening A Moving Opponent.

Thanks for your input.

[bossref]

Seeing as how I probably developed the first written page
of Misunderstood Rules (around 1980) and sent them to
you for further expansion, I just wondered if I should
be given credit for creating the list?

BTW You did a great job of refining and expanding the list,
but it was I who wrote the 26 rules that were most commonly
argued about.

Barry Alman
BOSS Officials
San Diego, CA
http://www.sdboss.com

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by SamIAm
I think there is not a maximum number of steps concerning setting a screen.

If there were no maximum, then every screen set on a moving defender would be illegal. You'd have to give the defender an unlimited number of steps before the contact.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

If there were no maximum, then every screen set on a moving defender would be illegal. You'd have to give the defender an unlimited number of steps before the contact.

Well, no.

No maximum = you can stand as far away as you like.

Maximum imposed = there is a distance beyond which you cannot legally stand.

No minimum = you an stand as close as you like.

Minimum imposed = there is a distance below which you cannot legally stand.

[BillyMac]

My apologies to bossref a.k.a. Barry Alman for not crediting him with all his help on my list of "Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules" that's been on the Official Forum Basketball web site for the past several weeks.

Originally, back in March 2005, I was asked by a friend to give a presentation on misunderstood basketball rules to his college Basketball Coaching class. In order to prepare for this presentation, I searched my own literature and the internet for information on misunderstood basketball rules. I discovered Mr. Alman's list after an internet search and his list was a great starting point. It made my preparation for this class a lot easier. I took his list and with the help of my IAABO Board #6 interpreter, made some additions and changes to the list, which I successfully used in my presentation to the class. I also discussed, with my interpreter, using this list at our annual "new rules" coaches meeting before this upcoming basketball season.

I have been a guest on the Official Forum Basketball for many years, but was reluctant to join until recently, when hoping to improve the list, I decided to share the list of misunderstood rules with members of the forum, hoping to get suggestions, comments, deletions, additions, questions, etc. from the thousands of officials on the forum, which is exactly what happened. Over the past several weeks about a dozen officials have made comments that have led to key changes on the list. In every case, I thanked and gave proper credit to the forum members suggesting the changes.

However, what I had forgotten to do, on the forum, was to give credit to the person who gave me the most initial help with the list, bossref a.k.a. Barry Alman. I had thanked Mr. Alman with an email back in March 2005, but since then, had not given him any public credit.

Thanks to bossref and all the other Official Forum Basketball members who have commented on this list. Don't stop now. Keep those comments coming.


[Edited by BillyMac on Oct 4th, 2005 at 10:20 AM]

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Well, no.

No maximum = you can stand as far away as you like.

Well, yes. If there is no maximum number of steps allowed before the contact becomes legal, then the defender would have to be allowed an infinite number of steps before contacting the screener. That would mean that anytime a moving defender hit a screen, the foul would be on the screener, b/c he should've been allowed one more step.

You can stand as far away as you like, but if there's contact it's the screener's fault, b/c the defender is allowed an infinite number of steps to get around the screen and you didn't give him an infinite number of steps.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Well, yes. If there is no maximum number of steps allowed before the contact becomes legal, then the defender would have to be allowed an infinite number of steps before contacting the screener. That would mean that anytime a moving defender hit a screen, the foul would be on the screener, b/c he should've been allowed one more step.

You can stand as far away as you like, but if there's contact it's the screener's fault, b/c the defender is allowed an infinite number of steps to get around the screen and you didn't give him an infinite number of steps.

I think you've got this bass ackwards.

The min/max distances applies to the screener, not the screenee. The screenee is allowed to take as many steps in any direction as he likes. The only constraints in the rules regarding the screenee is how he reacts after contact.

The screener has constraints placed on how close he can get to the screenee before he must stop moving, this distance is generally measured in the number of steps the screenee can take before making contact with the screener.

The screener has no maximum placed on the distance (number of steps) the screenee would be able to take before making contact. IOW there is no maximum on the number of steps the screener has to allow the screenee.

[ChuckElias]

4-40-5: "When screening a moving opponent, the screener must allow the opponent time and distance to avoid contact. The distance need not be more than two strides". The required distance between a screener and a moving opponent is a maximum of two strides.

Maybe we're saying the same thing, I don't know. What I do know is that the screenee gets a maximum of two steps. This rebuts Sam's claim that "I think there is not a maximum number of steps concerning setting a screen."

[Edited by ChuckElias on Oct 4th, 2005 at 10:38 AM]

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
4-40-5: "When screening a moving opponent, the screener must allow the opponent time and distance to avoid contact. The distance need not be more than two strides". The required distance between a screener and a moving opponent is a maximum of two strides.

Maybe we're saying the same thing, I don't know. What I do know is that the screenee gets a maximum of two steps. This rebuts Sam's claim that "I think there is not a maximum number of steps concerning setting a screen."

[Edited by ChuckElias on Oct 4th, 2005 at 10:38 AM]

Wrong.

The screenee is allowed to be given *3* steps by the screener.

This rebuts your claim that there is a maximum number of steps concerning setting a screen.

[mick]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Wrong.

The screenee is allowed to be given *3* steps by the screener.

This rebuts your claim that there is a maximum number of steps concerning setting a screen.

Dan,
Give 'im a break. His Patriots lost again and it has 'im befuddled.
mick

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by mick


Dan,
Give 'im a break. His Patriots lost again and it has 'im befuddled.
mick

My condolences to Chuck.

And apologies for raising the level of bickering in this thread.

[ChuckElias]

Well, I have to be honest. I have no idea whatsoever you're talking about. So I'll just make my point one last time and leave this thread alone.

My point, which is entirely correct and supported by the rule I quoted, is that a screener is required to give no more than two steps to a moving defender. The maximum that he is required to give is two. He is, of course, permitted to give 50 steps. Is that all you're getting at? That's not really the point of this conversation.

If there were no maximum to the requirement, then there could be no legal screens on a moving defender ever.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Well, I have to be honest. I have no idea whatsoever you're talking about.

That's pretty clear.

[SamIAm]

Originally posted by SamIAm
13) If a blind screen is set on a stationary defender, the defender must be given one normal step to change direction and attempt to avoid contact. If a screen is set on a moving defender, the defender gets a minimum of one step and a maximum of two steps, depending on the speed and distance of the defender.

I think there is not a maximum number of steps concerning setting a screen.

Chuck, Dan and BillyMac,

I am with Dan on this as far as the way I read the "rule". 13 says you get a minimum and a maximum, but does not explain a minimum and maximum to do what. As I read 13, "gets" seemed to mean the screen could be set no more than 2 steps away. After the explanations I have read, I understand and agree with your intended meaning, but would suggest further clarification. Afterall, your intentions were to simply rules for the un-educated.