Insight on Coaches box

[mick]

Originally posted by BayStateRef

That is not what the rule says. (10-5, 1 & 2) allows the coach to stand "to spontaneously react to an outstanding play" but it says nothing about instructing players. The coach may also stand to request a time out, confer with the scorer's table for a correctable error, replace a player within 30 seconds, attend to an injured player (when beckoned) and to confer with his team during a time out or between periods.

If he wants to instruct his players while standing, he needs to be in a state that has adopted the coaching box rule.

NFHS 2005-06 Rule 10-5-1 says:
"By state association adoption, the head coach may be off the bench in front of his seat within the confines of the designated coaching box, as in 1-13-2 [coaching box defined], to give instructions to his/her players and/or substitutes.

[Junker]

The point of my post was that he definitely understood the intent of the rule, he was up complaining, and then he was still suprised he got T'd up.

[mick]

Originally posted by Junker
The point of my post was that he definitely understood the intent of the rule, he was up complaining, and then he was still suprised he got T'd up.

Au contraire!
The offensive coach only raised his hands, didn't swear, yell or scream. Was he inciting, or was he amazed at the fine defensive play.

If he's not verbalizing, I have a problem 'Whacking' him.
But then, I don't 'Whack' as often as I probably should.
mick

[elecref]

i think that rook also needs to keep in mind that the rule book talks about the head coach having the privilege of the coaching box--- thus it is not a right. the box does not belong to him. as long as he is coaching his players in the box, leave him alone.

[truerookie]

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan

Where are you at in Missouri? I'm in St. Louis. Curious where you worked a girls freshman game as it could have ONLY been part of a fall season rec league. Now you're talking about a volunteer parents coaching.

CSF,
I am west of you in Waynesville/ST. Robert area no fall rec league there are no rec's in this particular area. Frisco league Freshmen games.

[truerookie]

Originally posted by elecref
i think that rook also needs to keep in mind that the rule book talks about the head coach having the privilege of the coaching box--- thus it is not a right. the box does not belong to him. as long as he is coaching his players in the box, leave him alone.

elecref, I agree with you on everything except the part "leave him alone" if a coach is not authorize by rule to stand continously why let'em?

Rook

[truerookie]

Originally posted by rockyroad
Truerookie, if there's nothing spectacular going on, and the coach is just standing there, why are you initiating contact with him/her? Unless they do something to get your attention (screaming, waving arms, being a dexter-head, etc) why even pay any attention to the coach?

I view it like any other rule which must be enforced. If it is being violated why not correct it.

[truerookie]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Rook, I'm not trying to pile on, but it sounds to me that you don't really know all the aspects of the Head Coaches' Rule (10-5). The underlined part of what you wrote above is called "coaching" and standing up to coach is not allowed unless your state has adopted the coaching box.

"Shouting instructions" and "applauding an outstanding play" are in two different categories. A coach is allowed to briefly stand for the latter even if your state has not adopted the coaching box. However, a coach may not rise for the former without benefit of a coaching box.

Take another look through 10-5, just to get more familiar with it.

Chuck, thanks, I understand it. I ran two scenerios together. The coach was not doing any of the three items listed under 10-5 coaches rule. I have a NOTE in my particular book which states: by state association adoption, the head coach may be off the bench in front of his/her seat within the confines of the designated coaching box to give instructions to his/her players and or substitutes. The way I see it does not state he/she can continously stand within the confines of the box.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by truerookie

Chuck, thanks, I understand it. I ran two scenerios together. The coach was not doing any of the three items listed under 10-5 coaches rule. I have a NOTE in my particular book which states: by state association adoption, the head coach may be off the bench in front of his/her seat within the confines of the designated coaching box to give instructions to his/her players and or substitutes. The way I see it does not state he/she can continously stand within the confines of the box.

Rook, please talk to some of the veteranos in your association before you take this too far. You're picking nits that don't need to be picked. Iow, chill. Technical fouls are basically divided into 2 types;procedural types like book errors and unsporting Ts. A coach just coaching is neither. Concentrate on the players on the floor. If you do the job there, you'll have a lot less problems with the coaches during your career.

[truerookie]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Rook, please talk to some of the veteranos in your association before you take this too far. You're picking nits that don't need to be picked. Iow, chill. Technical fouls are basically divided into 2 types;procedural types like book errors and unsporting Ts. A coach just coaching is neither. Concentrate on the players on the floor. If you do the job there, you'll have a lot less problems with the coaches during your career.

JR,
Thanks, for the advice.

[truerookie]

I would like to thank all of you for your input. Some I agree with some I do not the one thing I gather from the entire situation is I will continue to eat my "Honey Nuts Cheerios" and develop. Thanks again to all.

[rainmaker]

The problem is that a rookie hears two opposing voices and has trouble balancing them out. I speak from experience here, I've had this problem myself.

One voice says, "The rule is the rule, and you must enforce the rule. If you let them get by with it, you just make it harder for the next ref."

The other voice says, "It's clear that the intent isn't to whack every (whatever infraction) defined right down to the last centimeter. You've got to let some of that stuff roll off you back, relax a little."

These are said by equally experienced and elevated refs in equally uncertain circumstances, and the problem is for the rookie to sort out when to be firm and unwavering, and when to be flexible and magnanimous.

Truerookie, the only thing for you to do is to go to games that are being worked by experienced refs in your area, and watch what they let go and what they crack down on. Interpretation does vary by association, and by locality.

Also, note that when the coaching box is in effect, continuous standing IS legal. That's why the coaching box is for. The rule says it's not legal, but that only applies when the coaching box is not adopted in that state. If your state has the coaching box, then the coach is allowed to stand continuously, as long as he's just coaching.

Also, could you please put a little more punctuation into your posts? It's a little hard to understand what you're trying to say sometimes.

[zebraman]

There are ways to manage the coaching box other than a technical foul.

My pregame conference with the coaches is very brief. I maybe say three things. However, one of those things is always to remind the coach that he/she needs to stay in the box and they need to be coaching if they are up. Not only does it let some of the less knowledable ones know the rule, but it also lets them know that the crew is aware of the box and that we will be monitoring it.

If the coach stands the whole time when the game begins, a quick conversation when you find yourself in front of the coach on a dead ball does wonders: "Hey coach, can you help me out on the coaching box? You can stand while coaching, but you need to sit while watching." Say it with a smile. Since it was mentioned in the pregame conference, they know what you're talking about.

There are also some hand signals to use if you find yourself opposite the bench. The "wave-in" signal is almost always greeted with a coach looking down and realizing he/she is out of the box followed by a grin and them getting back in the box. The "wave-down" signal is almost always greeted with a coach immediately sitting down (or starting to coach instead of just stand).

It bothers me when I work a game with a ref who says, "as long as the coaches aren't yelling at us I don't care where they are." IMHO, that's just an excuse for an official who hasn't learned how to ref more than just the 84-feet of court. Managing coaches is part of our job. If you don't monitor bench decorum and keep it under control, you probably will end up with no choice than to give a T. I prefer the preventative approach.

Z

[Junker]

Au contraire!
The offensive coach only raised his hands, didn't swear, yell or scream. Was he inciting, or was he amazed at the fine defensive play.

If he's not verbalizing, I have a problem 'Whacking' him.
But then, I don't 'Whack' as often as I probably should.
mick [/B][/QUOTE]

I wouldn't have thrown the T on him in a V game, but in a Freshman game, it would depend on how he has been up to that point. What I found funny was that he knew the rule almost exactly, but was upset that he got his T. The same guy got into some trouble with his V coach later that season, because as an assistant he jumped up to complain during a tight V game and got a T that didn't help their team in the least.

[Adam]

I think part of the problem, Jeff, is that in Iowa, girls' coaches can stand and boys' coaches can't. Veteran coaches know this. New ones don't and get grumpy when you enforce it.
Veteran coaches (even at the JV level) get pi$$y when you let the other guy stand too much. I've found that by letting this go, I've set myself up for problems. It's a lot easier to minimize the chirping when coach is on his bench. They seem to be bolder when standing.
I've found plenty of reasons to enforce this, and they outweigh (IMO) any reasons I may have for letting it go. If they're up briefly and back down before I have a chance to address it; I'll assume he's applauding his team.
Now, with the girls, I don't care if coach is just "watching" or is actively coaching. The box is there for them to coach, and nothing says silence can't be a coaching technique.