Is the NFHS going with the American flag patch on the ref's uniform for this season?

I do believe you are authorized to wear the American flag on your uniform. They have not specifically stated it had to be worn so check with your association.

Yeah, this is an associational thing. It varies, it's not required for us but I can't think of too many officials who do not have one though. I heard someone say somtime it seperates the new guys from the guys who have been around for a little while? A coach told me that so we know how much credibility that has.

I've got one on my jacket, but none on my shirts.

This is not an association thing, this is an individual thing. No one can make you wear a symbol one way or another.

Peace

I hate to sound ignorant, but our local assn. hasn't mentioned flag patches one way or the other. I remember the federation rule that they should be 2" x 3", but which sleeve and where do you guys get them? Officials Choice?

This might depend on where you live. In my state we have to wear a state patch on our left shoulder. So we are instructed to wear our flag patch on the right shoulder (not required). I think the right shoulder is a common place to put the flag, but it is possible that you have to wear other patches on that shoulder and you might be instructed to do something else. I have seen flag patches on the right chest pocket area (mainly football officials) and put on the back near the neck area. I am sure there is a standard where you live, just ask around.

Peace

Well if you order them from the Officials Choice you'll pay about 3 bucks for the flag and 11 on shipping. So I get mine from Honig's.

Actually, to wear the patch properly, it depends which way the flag is displayed on the patch. We had this issue a few years ago in our association. The proper way to wear the flag is so that the stars are toward the front of your body and the stripes trail behind. We had both types of patches available and some of the refs bought the wrong type of patch for the shoulder they were wearing it on.

So, for example, if you wear the flag patch on your left shoulder, the stars should be on the left side of the flag patch.

Pick them up next time you go to Walmart or try a craft store.

Hey, this is my 1000th post.

you can also get them at...
 

National Emblem, Inc. Randhurst Shopping Center #115, 999 N. Elmhurst Rd., Mt. Prospect, IL 60056

Ph. 800-877-6185
Richard Kurtyka ~ Midwest Sales Manager

I think my patches were less than $2 each. And they paid the postage too!!! What a deal!!!

And if you wear the flag patch on your right sleeve (which isn't required by NFHS as others have stated), since my state association patch is on my left sleeve, make sure out of respect for all of our fighting men and women and our country that you get the flag patch with the blue field facing forward!!! this particular patch looks backwards to the way our flag is normally seen. but, the blue field is always to be pointing forward and never in "retreat". I hate seeing our flag displayed the wrong way on officials uniforms.

For clarification this statement is correct. No one can make you wear a symbol one way or the other.

However, they can decline to assign games to you if you do not conform to the association requirements. This is similar to the comment you make later in this thread about having to wear the state patch.

True, but they can deny you the ability to work certain games if you fail to comply to uniform standards. In my state, one of those standards is the IAABO patch. Of course, nobody can make me wear it. But if I don't wear it, it won't be too long before I am censured by my association and put on probation, which means I can't work HS games.

So while Rut's statement is true, it misses the context of the original question. If your association says the flag is a mandatory part of the uniform, then you can wear it and work games or you can refuse and retire. :)

I guess it really comes from where you live. I do not belong to groups or organizations that assign any games. The IHSA is not an official's association. The IHSA is an association of schools and they license officials in order to work those games. The only things they require are patches to signify that we are licensed with the IHSA. Flag patches are symbols that have nothing to do with officiating. Of course someone could "require" you wear such a patch. The problem is we are independent contractors (at least in our state) and that might open the assignors up for violating independent contractor laws. I have said before it amazes me how many are "slaves to their organizations," and here our organizations are there to train and recruit officials only. We are not trying to make people do anything that might have a political slant to it. Whether we like it or not, wearing an American Flag has political statements surrounding it. I am not sure many want to "go there." Obviously they could make such a requirement, but you might have to deal with a lawsuit to defend that position. Not sure many assignors or associations want to open themselves up for that kind of issue. After all they want to fill games, not alienate people that might work for them.

Peace

No lawsuits would be forthcoming because there is no merit.

Like you said we are independent contractors. We do not have to accept any games. Likewise, Associations, Conferences or any other group responsible for assigning games are not required to assign us any games. If you don't like the requirements don't accept the assignment. Nobody is a "slave to the organization". You either choose to abide by their rules and constituition or you don't participate. Therefore, a lawsuit is frivolous (sp?)

Please tell me laws would be violated. There are many employers who require the flag to be worn as part of the uniform. If you don't like it, don't work for them. It is as simple as that.

Now, in terms of where I officiate, it is our option. However, since I choose to call this country home, I have no problem sewing the patch on my sleeve.

Chuck said the same thing I did, only better.

You might want to check your state laws. The IHSA does not want to have an observers program because there are some obvious legal issues that might violate the independent contractor laws.

It sounds that way when you are telling us that an association will not give you games if you do not adhere to what is a symbol or political statement. What if someone is not an American citizen? Can they wear the flag of their country? I know officials that are not Nationalized American Citizens and being an American Citizen is not an absolute requirement (at least in this state).

Independent contractor laws are usually state laws. Just like classifications for non-for profit status as it relates to Official's Associations. Maybe in your state everything it is OK to do that, the IHSA goes out of their way not to require more of the officials to not breach state laws or classifications. It is a lot different than working for the local police department which pays its employees benefits and salary. If I work a contractor job for a city, other than following the law not sure the city can make me wear a flag.

You are right we have options. The reality is no one here requires such a silly thing. I would bet no one on this discussion board has lost games because they did not have a flag patch.

My football crew wears a flag because that was a crew decisions soon after the September 11 tragedy. September 11 happen during the football season and emotions were high. I do not have one basketball shirt with a flag on it. No one really wears them and it is very hard to find 3 guys that all have patched shirts. I do not even bother. I have not had one assignor even care about this issue. As I said, our assignors or ADs that hire officials want games filled, not political agreement amongst the officials.

Peace

Being a "REDBLOODED" fighting American. I have served (still serving) "our" country for 15 years (Army) active duty. I wear the American flag on both my utility uniform (Mandatory)directive from our Chain of Command and official shirt (optional)in my heart this is what being an American is all about. "Living the American dream". I am appalled that this is even an issue.

My father is buried in a Veteran's Cemetery in Memphis, Tenn. He served in Korea. I thank you for your service. I also feel that political statements should not be a requirement in sports. I just know that having been in an a JROTC program in high school and knowing all the procedures in honoring the flag, most Americans are clueless to those procedures (standing at attention when the flag passes, knowing if the flag should be dipped or not). Even the flags we were given through an association were totally wrong based on what sleeve we can put them on. No one is outraged. No one basically cares just as long as they have the flag; they do not care if they properly "honor" the flag.

All I am saying is we get so caught up in these issues that have nothing to do with what we are doing based on if someone wears a flag or not. The great thing about this country is we can disagree on these issues. I just feel that wearing a flag should not be an issue. If someone wants it to be, the buy everyone flags and at least make sure they are wearing it properly. All our state says to our officials is that a flag can be worn on our right shoulder but they do not educate anyone on whether the flag is facing the proper way. Not that I blame them for not knowing the difference. I know I did not think about it until the issue was raised. I just feel symbols are just that symbols. A flag can change, what is in my heart or my values are not influenced only by symbols.


Peace

We wear ours on the back. OC would sew them on. Our board voted to have them worn. I may have a shirt or two w/o one. If I wear one of those by mistake, it may cost me rating points. But, NOT wearing the flag can ALSO be a political statement. Our assn. voted. It has not been appealed. That is the way it is here.

Rut, there has got to be a deeper issue that causes all this anger and disagreement. I think you are an intelligent person by the content of your posts. However, you always come off as someone who must disagree when it isn't even needed. You have this fit all response that you use to back you up that has to do with where someone lives and the fact that we all live in different places. For crying out loud! We know we don't all live in the same place and there are differences! Can you give that a rest? You have a lot to offer without the constant "jerk" in you coming out. What is really wrong?

I'm asking out of genuine curiosity, not trying to pick a fight or anything like that. But what political statement do you think is being made by wearing the flag?

Are you assuming that it indicates support for a particular party? Or for the war in Iraq? Or for disbanding the U.N.?

Like I said, I'm not trying to pick a fight. I just don't see why wearing the flag has to be some political statement. Maybe it's a personal statement about love for one's homeland, regardless of who holds the White House.

So, can they make you wear a patch or not? In one post you say they can't (regarding a flag) and in another they say the do (regarding a IHSA patch). The only difference is what's on the patch. Whoever is in charge of licensing or assiging or certifying can make whatever they want a requirement...if you don't follow the requirement, you don't work. Its not a matter of being pertinent to officiating.

A patch is no different than the rest of the uniform. Why stripes? Why not a plaid? Why black shoes? None of those have any bearing on the quality of job that can or is done.

Wearing a patch that shows you have a license is not the same as wearing a symbol that has nothing to do with that license. I have a license plate on my car, it is not required that I put a symbol on it in order to comply with the law.

Well a flag patch must be differnet if they tell you right off the bat that a flag patch is <b>optional</b>. Not only do they tell you it is optional, they go out of their way to suggest it is optional. It must not be the same thing. ;)

Peace

Why does it need to be worn? We all know what country we are from right? Why do you need another reminder to say the obvious? I am a Christian. Would it be right to wear a Cross on my jersey too? All symbols mean something to someone. If it didn't matter to someone just ask Tommie Smith and John Carlos. Then come back to me on what statements mean.

Peace

Patch
 

WOW! I didn’t post this topic to be a heated argument, I have seen some High School officials with a patch on there left shoulder of there uniform during a rec. game and was told by that official that this year it was required.
Now some of you say its not and its optional I just hate to be on a court with a partner who has one and some of us who might not have one at all, I always feel that as a team we should look alike as much as we can on the court (professionalism) is what I’m trying to say here.
I guess I will have to have 2 uniforms at all time with one with the flag and the other one plain, just hope that it’s all on the same side.

In cutting through all the rhetoric, just ask what your association does. If you officiate in other jurisdictions, ask what their policy is. It is no big deal, although it seems to be with some.

Yup!

Let's split some hairs here; wearing a patch does not necessarily mean you are licensed, that's why we still have to carry our card and it's the burden of the school to verify our certification. Last year I purchased an additional 5 patches. None of them came with a Lojack on them so nobody really knows what I did with them or where they are right now.

Well any officials, coach or administrator sees you without a state patch (in my state) can write you up (using a Special Report) for not wearing one. Then you will have to answer to the state and might get put on probation as a result and possibly your license suspended. There is no such procedure for a flag being on your jersey. You can even get in trouble if it is not worn properly. The American flag can be worn on the jersey, backwards, upside down and that is not a viable reason to get written up for. So there is a huge difference. ;)

Peace

Here to. I'm making the point that just because someone has a patch on their shirt does not mean that there license is current.

OK. The flag patch is still not a requirement. That was my only point.

Peace

We've had some new guys who have not been 'patched' wearing patched shirts. I had a patched jacket but did not wear it until I was officially patched. This is akin to the comment made when you see a bad driving manuever and you shout out, 'Where did you get your license? Sears?'

I have nothing at all substantial to add, other than I take two different shirts with me to games, one with a flag, and one without. It's more important to me that we look uniform as a crew, rather than trying to make any statement, such as, "Look at me, I'm the only partiotic one in the crew!"

Anyway, on to a more important question:

JRut, does your signature mean you're finally certified in basketball? If so, congratulations!

Also, do you own a car dealership? As I was driving yesterday I saw a car that had "Rutledge" as the dealer. First thing that came to mind: I wonder if it's Jeff.

I probably have said this, but in basketball I work with a lot of different people and in different parts of the state. It might be common to run into an official that has an American flag on one of their jerseys, but uncommon that I will get two officials that have them as well. I just never thought it made sense at the time to pay more money to put a flag on a shirt I might never really wear. As a football official it seems that everyone has flags on their shirts. I do not have one football shirt that I wear that is absent of an American Flag. It hit home more with football officials when 9-11 happen. We played a game the Friday after 9-11 took place. The game I did was even near O'Hare airport and that Friday was the first day planes were allowed to fly. I just found it interesting how everyone reacted when we saw the first plane flying over the school.

Not in basketball, football. I have been Certified in basketball since December of 2002. So this will technically be my 3rd full season being Certified in basketball. I was so happy to finally get Certified in football I put it in my signature. :D

No I do not own a dealership. Not sure I would be able to officiate as much if I did. :D

Peace

I smell discounts!

(I just hope not on the Yugos...)

Damn.

Ok, there goes his name off the carpool list...

They still make those cars? ;)

Peace

I have nothing at all substantial to add [/B][/QUOTE]Agree

Agree [/B][/QUOTE]

May a sick yak leave a gift in your sock drawer.

__________________________________________________ _________

Right sleeve. 1 1/2 inches from the shoulder. Official's Choice -- you gotta be kidding me! Try Ben Frankin or Wal-Mart for about 2 bucks. I wear them for b'ball and v'ball. Soccer I just wear the pacth on the left pocket.