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Call the T if you KNOW it came from the huddle.

Don't call the T if you don't KNOW who said it.

My point is if you don't KNOW who said it, how can you KNOW it came from the huddle.

If it's loud enough that the fans and others in the gym hear it and know for sure it came from the bench, call the T. If there's a chance anyone is not sure, talk to the coach. An example, "Coach, I heard some profanity and I don't know for sure if it came from your huddle. If it did, please take care of it so that we don't have to." Thenk make sure your partner(s) are aware of the situation so that if it happens again it gets taken care of. This can be done quietly so it doesn't give the opposing coach a freebie as someone posted.

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
1. You stated that you "will not be paying close attention to what they are doing in the team huddle" and that profanity in the huddle during a TO is "something I am not going to worry about." This is in direct conflict with the NFHS's directive in the POE for officials to "pay particular attention" to this.
Question A: Do you do this on your own as a personal choice or because those you assign you to games in your area don't want you to follow what the NFHS says on this?
Question B: Would you lose games for enforcing the NFHS POE on unsporting acts and calling the technical fouls?

This is not at all in direct conflict with what the NF says. I have also told you before that what the NF says is not the ultimate law either. The NF is not the only governing body that can share an opinion or tell the officials what to do. There is nothing that says we have to go "listening for comments" in the huddles of teams. If there is such a directive, where is that information? The NF only says is we can penalize players and coaches for things they say. Once again, this is not my priority. I am not going to call fouls when I do not see actions from players. I am not going to call Ts on players and coaches for language I do not hear. You have shown nothing that says the NF wants us to do this.

Earlier in the thread I posted what was written on pages 70 and 71 of the 2004-05 NFHS Basketball Rules Book. This is the "directive" about which I am speaking:

From the 2004-05 POINTS OF EMPHASIS:

"4. Specific unsporting acts. The committee is concerned about the following specific unsporting acts. Coaches, players and officials must pay particular attention to these areas:
A. Face guarding. ...
B. 'Flopping.' ...
C. Inappropriate language. The committee is concerned about the use of inappropriate language by players, bench personnel, coaches, officials and spectators. Each group has a responsibility to the game and to each other to demonstrate civility and citizenship.

The team huddle is not a safe haven for coaches' bad language. Players are not permitted to "let off steam" by using profanity, even if it is not directed at an opponent or official. Being angry at oneself is no excuse. Officials are not exempt either. Inappropriate references to players or coaches are not acceptable. Game administrators must also pay particular attention to fans. A game ticket is not a license to abuse."

I have certainly never advocated penalizing players or coaches for language that is not heard, that would be absurd. However, I do think that if the unsporting language is heard and can for certain be attributed to a particular team, coach, or player, then it should be penalized since the NFHS is asking us to "pay particular attention" to this.

While I happen to fall in line with the advice written by BktBallRef and Jurassic on this topic, that doesn't mean that I don't respect your views as well.

I have no doubt that you are a successful official, and have become so by doing things the way you do, you don't need to list anything to convince me of this.

I'll just accept that this language issue is handled differently in your area and leave it at that.
Where I am there is a big emphasis on cleaning up the HS game.

This is a great discussion guys...lots of real world in here. Thanks for the divergent points of view. This kind of stuff makes us all better, regardless of where you stand on the specifics.

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref

I have certainly never advocated penalizing players or coaches for language that is not heard, that would be absurd. However, I do think that if the unsporting language is heard and can for certain be attributed to a particular team, coach, or player, then it should be penalized since the NFHS is asking us to "pay particular attention" to this.

While I happen to fall in line with the advice written by BktBallRef and Jurassic on this topic, that doesn't mean that I don't respect your views as well.

I have no doubt that you are a successful official, and have become so by doing things the way you do, you don't need to list anything to convince me of this.

I'll just accept that this language issue is handled differently in your area and leave it at that.
Where I am there is a big emphasis on cleaning up the HS game.

Nevada, this is really not about different areas. This is more about what makes sense. Anyone ejected in my state has to file a written report. If you work for an assignor they might require some explanation as well. I do not want to explain anything where all I can say, "I am not sure who said it." If I am going to give Ts that might lead to a very sticky situation, I want to be sure who I can point the finger at. I cannot rely on what other people do if I am the person that has to answer the questions. I always want there to be little doubt about what took place. I do not want the fall out to include someone else being responsible for getting another individual being thrown out because the no one was identified.
What I also find so interesting about when it comes to language, people are so willing to T up bad words, but look completely the other way when the other parts of 10-3-7 take place. Or at the very least we use good judgment before we have to give a T. We all cannot agree on what is bad language, but we all want to give a T when it takes place.

Peace