Coach delays after time out

[mdray]

Originally posted by Mregor

If play is resumed by a FT, if the thrower is the one delaying, you place the ball on the line and begin the count.
Mregor

Remember, after the ball has been placed at the disposal of the free thrower, he/she is not permitted to leave OR ENTER the free-throw semicircle without violating, until restrictions have ended. (9.1.7)

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Luke, I think he was just being coy, not disrespectful. But if he was being snotty, I'll get him here for you.

MM, I was willing to let the first line slide, but the second one got to me! You said:

"First horn: at 15 sec. on a 30-sec. TO
Second horn: at 45 sec. on a 60-sec. TO

Why is the second horn at 45 on a 60 sec TO? What the heck is that all about?!

D'oh!

I was in a hurry to get done and out of work, so I got sloppy. You're right - it's at 40 for a 60-sec. TO. And Luke - I'm usually not snotty. Well, except for the occasional days the pollen count is real high...oh, never mind. Anyway, I wasn't sure if you were saying the 3rd horn was a result of you telling the table to do that, or the table was doing it on their own. But, you've probably gotten it by now - there is no 3rd horn. Now, if the table is the problem, and lord knows there's ALWAYS problem tables out there (no names mentioned Mark! ), then you just need to find time to have a talk with the table. Maybe a quick mention during a time out, or in between quarters if you need to have a real heart-to-heart. Ideally though, this should be done before the game. In NCAA-W, the entire crew is required to go over to the table; the R checks the book and talks to the scorekeeper, the U1 talks to the timer, and the U2 talks to the shot clock operator. It's basically having a pre-game with the rest of your crew, so everyone's on the same page.

Back to the delay. Give the team every opportunity to get out there and play. The idea of the resuming play procedure is to prevent a team from taking an unfair advantage, for example, trying to diagram a play that takes 83 seconds to draw up, during a 30 sec. TO, while the other team is standing out there twiddling their thumbs. It's a little like calling the 3 second violation - understand advantage/disadvantage, talk 'em out of it every chance you get, but if you need to call it, do it. I've had to blow the whistle and set the ball down probably once every two years, so it doesn't happen often. But when I've done it, everyone in the gym knows it needed to be done. The second horn had long since blown, we had been in the huddle clapping our hands, telling them to get moving, the team was all still in the huddle, the other team was all on the floor waiting, and my partners and I got to our positions, we all made eye contact, I made eye contact with the table to make sure they had put down their popcorn and were ready to go...anyway, get the picture? That way, when you blow the whistle extra long and put the ball down, the coach has absolutely no complaint that you have it in for his team and you're putting the ball in play too soon.

[Love this Game]

If working during the summer time, and I am putting the ball in play my partner will go to them tell them lets play.

If they dont move, i lay the ball down and start my count.

And the same during the regular season, if you do that just once you will get there attention.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by M&M Guy
I was in a hurry to get done and out of work, so I got sloppy. You're right - it's at 40 for a 60-sec. TO. [/B]

Rule 2-12-4
The timer shall sound a warning signal 15 seconds before the expiration of an intermission or a 60-second charged time-out

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes

Rule 2-12-4
The timer shall sound a warning signal 15 seconds before the expiration of an intermission or a 60-second charged time-out [/B]

Good, you passed my little test.

Sigh...

Let's try this again. It's at 20 for a 30 sec. TO.

I need more caffine. That's what happens when I do more than just work at work. (I sure hope that last report I did doesn't have the same dumb errors.)

[stmaryrams]

Had it happen once as a coach and it never happened again.

I had two teams slow to break in a girls JV game two years ago. I warned on the first slow to break timeout that I would be putting the ball in play the next time.

Guess what, the guy was slow again, the other team was ready and I set the ball down and started my 5 second count.

Girls ran onto the court and he grips but we didn't have any problems after that from either team the rest of the night!

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by M&M Guy

Good, you passed my little test.

Sigh...

Let's try this again. It's at 20 for a 30 sec. TO.

I need more caffine. That's what happens when I do more than just work at work. (I sure hope that last report I did doesn't have the same dumb errors.) [/B]

But all this is still wrong because the original post says this is when the SECOND horn sounds. It should be the first horn. I'm not a caffeine addict, so I have a hard time understanding your excuse, but in general on this board, typos and other errors made in haste are not a big deal. I just don't want any young, impressionable refs to take away a mistaken understanding of the horn schedule.

juulie

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by lukealex
What is the proper procedure for dealing with a coach or team that delays after the second horn following a TO?

First horn - TO almost over
Second horn - TO over
Third horn - Delay warning? How long do you usually wait until giving a tech?

There is no third horn. I do not have my rules books in front of me but both that NFHS and NCAA use the same resuming play procedure after a timeout. You can find the actual procedure in either rule book.

MTD, Sr.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by stmaryrams
Had it happen once as a coach and it never happened again.

I had two teams slow to break in a girls JV game two years ago. I warned on the first slow to break timeout that I would be putting the ball in play the next time.

Guess what, the guy was slow again, the other team was ready and I set the ball down and started my 5 second count.

Girls ran onto the court and he grips but we didn't have any problems after that from either team the rest of the night!

My partner did this once, all we did was end up Tin the coach and then later tossing him for a second T.

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by rainmaker

But all this is still wrong because the original post says this is when the SECOND horn sounds. It should be the first horn. I'm not a caffeine addict, so I have a hard time understanding your excuse, but in general on this board, typos and other errors made in haste are not a big deal. I just don't want any young, impressionable refs to take away a mistaken understanding of the horn schedule.

juulie

Well, I went back and read what I originally posted, and NOW I finally understand what you meant. And, of course, you're right. I made a couple of mistakes, but was too busy focusing on the "being dilberate" issue. So, for all those young, impressionable refs out there, the procedure is as follows:

First horn: (Fed.) at 20 sec. on a 30-sec. timeout, (NCAA) at 15 sec. on a 30-sec. timeout, (Fed.) at 45 sec. on a 60-sec. timeout, (NCAA) 60 sec. on a 75-sec. timeout.

Second horn: (all) at 30 sec. on a 30-sec. timeout, (Fed.) 60 sec. on a 60-sec. timeout, (NCAA) 75 sec. on a 75-sec. timeout.

Third horn: when the table needs more popcorn.

As usual, my brain runs a little faster than I can type sometimes. And I was using the caffine as a crutch (or excuse?). So, from now on, can you please listen to what I meant, rather than what I said?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by M&M Guy


Well, I went back and read what I originally posted, and NOW I finally understand what you meant. And, of course, you're right. I made a couple of mistakes, but was too busy focusing on the "being dilberate" issue. So, for all those young, impressionable refs out there, the procedure is as follows:

First horn: (Fed.) at 20 sec. on a 30-sec. timeout, (NCAA) at 15 sec. on a 30-sec. timeout, (Fed.) at 45 sec. on a 60-sec. timeout, (NCAA) 60 sec. on a 75-sec. timeout.

Second horn: (all) at 30 sec. on a 30-sec. timeout, (Fed.) 60 sec. on a 60-sec. timeout, (NCAA) 75 sec. on a 75-sec. timeout.

Third horn: when the table needs more popcorn.

As usual, my brain runs a little faster than I can type sometimes. And I was using the caffine as a crutch (or excuse?). So, from now on, can you please listen to what I meant, rather than what I said?

Don't forget - for an NCAA 60 second timeout (they do exist), first horn is at 45 seconds, second horn is at 60 seconds.

Also, the NCAA caveat - if the team that was granted the timeout is ready early, the first horn is sounded when they come back on to the court. The second horn is sounded 15 seconds later. (Alternatively, you can have a timeout just for substitutions.)

The ultimate NCAA caveat - during a media timeout, the first and second horns are whenever the producer wants them.

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Don't forget - for an NCAA 60 second timeout (they do exist), first horn is at 45 seconds, second horn is at 60 seconds.

Also, the NCAA caveat - if the team that was granted the timeout is ready early, the first horn is sounded when they come back on to the court. The second horn is sounded 15 seconds later. (Alternatively, you can have a timeout just for substitutions.)

The ultimate NCAA caveat - during a media timeout, the first and second horns are whenever the producer wants them.

All of the above are correct as well, but the 60-sec. timeout involves NCAA media games. I didn't include that to further confuse those young and impressionable refs. Unless some of these young, impressionable guys are already doing NCAA media games...

Anyone want to jump in with NBA timeout info?

[ChrisSportsFan]

I think we all agree that it's best to try and talk a coach out of this violation. I've had success grabbing the captain and telling him to remind his coach to honor those horns so we can keep the game moving. Sometimes a team will actually have a captain that can help us.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by M&M Guy

All of the above are correct as well, but the 60-sec. timeout involves NCAA media games. I didn't include that to further confuse those young and impressionable refs. Unless some of these young, impressionable guys are already doing NCAA media games...

Some of us are. (Unfortunately, from the other side of the table.)

Anyone want to jump in with NBA timeout info?

Nope. Although Chuck had a post a few months back explaining it. It was the first time I was able to understand the NBA timeout procedure.

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Some of us are. (Unfortunately, from the other side of the table.)

I knew you were young, but I didn't know you were impressionable.

That's got to be a fun experience, even though you're not actually out on the floor.