Free Throw Violation

[DownTownTonyBrown]

So a player that leaves his feet in the proper lane space and falls into the key (push up) has not left his lane space and this should NOT be a violation?

JR, Nevada, I'd like to sell tickets to that one! I can't imagine a single person in the gym that would say "Yep, the referee is correct. That is okay/legal."

Does a player leave the court if he is doing push-ups across the Out Of Bounds line? Can a player scoot up to the free throw line extended and do push-ups across that imaginary line while the shooter is making his free throw attempt? How about doing push-ups with his hands inside the semi-circle and feet outside the 3-point line? How about lying on his back inside the semi-circle and kicking his feet in the air outside the circle?

You know, most playes spend just about all of their time during the game standing on two feet (well, not touching anything else to the floor [hands/butt/etc.]), so I'm thinking that if play is basically stopped (like during a free throw attempt), anything besides standing on two feet watching the shooter and the ball/rebound has a good chance of being disconcerting, if nothing else.

Touching in the lane is generally accepted as a violation and I believe should rightfully be called. Can the shooter fall into the lane and catch himself in a push-up position? Per Rule 9, that would be okay too.

You know, you might get away with it during a game but if it was the game winning shot... now you're going to have to really sell the no call. Somebody is going to be screaming. I guess you could always say... "Well, I didn't call it earlier."

I'll be calling it as a violation.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown

JR, Nevada, I'd like to sell tickets to that one!

Geeze, Tony, I hope that the "JR" you are referring to is someone else other than me. I certainly don't want to be associated with that nonsense either.

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
So a player that leaves his feet in the proper lane space and falls into the key (push up) has not left his lane space and this should NOT be a violation?

JR, Nevada, I'd like to sell tickets to that one! I can't imagine a single person in the gym that would say "Yep, the referee is correct. That is okay/legal."

Tickets are sold to many games where not a single person in the gym has said, "Yep, the referee is correct. That is okay/legal."

Anyway, I feel exactly the way you do - I will also call this a violation. But, I do understand Nevada's position - as the rule is written, it would not be a violation. There is nothing in the rules on FT's that would make this a violation. I'm pretty sure the intent of the rule is to allow the leaning, so we don't have to watch for whether a player's hand, or face, or lock of hair has broken the plane of the lane space. We just need to watch the feet. But the unintended consequence is there is no language in place about touching the lane directly, or being "in the lane" during a FT. Your comparison to being OOB doesn't work, because there is specific language in place - rule 7-1. This is just Nevada's "warped, legalistic opinion" on a possible loophole. I feel better that I haven't been calling this wrong all these years (well, at least this specific item), and discussions like this do force me to read the rules much more carefully, rather than skim over things that I think are "obvious".

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by M&M Guy

Tickets are sold to many games where not a single person in the gym has said, "Yep, the referee is correct. That is okay/legal."

Most of my games are like that - tickets are sold, but there's not a single person in the gym.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by M&M Guy

Anyway, I feel exactly the way you do - I will also call this a violation. But, I do understand Nevada's position - as the rule is written, it would not be a violation. There is nothing in the rules on FT's that would make this a violation.

Isn't there a rule about "shall not enter or leave a lane space?" Doesn't touching the lane mean that the player has left the lane space?

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Geeze, Tony, I hope that the "JR" you are referring to is someone else other than me. I certainly don't want to be associated with that nonsense either.

Sorry, JR; I misunderstood your position. I read this thread in one fell swoop and several comments coagulated together (a bloody mess).

Nevada is still warped!


P.S. Not only would I sell tickets, I would willingly BUY a ticket to see either one of you work a game.

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Isn't there a rule about "shall not enter or leave a lane space?" Doesn't touching the lane mean that the player has left the lane space?

That's where all the fun and frivolity has ensued. You could say, as long as his feet are still in the space, that he hasn't left. And, he certainly was not in the space and now entering it. He's just in "more" than that space. And, the biggest issue is 9-1-9 that says only the feet can't be beyond the lane space marks. It doesn't say anything about being "in the lane", or "touching" the lane, etc. as far as free throws are concerned.

Of course, these are good points to argue if I was on the debate team in school. (I didn't have time for the debate team; chess club and science club took up too much time ) But realistically, I won't consider making that call until my last season.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by M&M Guy
But realistically, I won't consider making that call until my last season. [/B]

Oh, it would be your last season alright. You could take that one to the bank.

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Oh, it would be your last season alright. You could take that one to the bank. [/B]

I know, that's why I'm making that list.

Wanna buy a ticket?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by M&M Guy
[/B]

I know, that's why I'm making that list.

Wanna buy a ticket? [/B][/QUOTE]I heard that the Cubs sold tickets to Kerry Woods' shoulder surgery today.

They're thinking of making it an annual event.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by M&M Guy
That's where all the fun and frivolity has ensued. You could say, as long as his feet are still in the space, that he hasn't left.

But, a person is OOB if touoching OOB, not "all the way" OOB. And, a person is in the two-point area (aka "out of the three-point area") when touching the two-point area, not all the way in the two point area. Similarly with the lane (three seconds), back court, etc. I don't think it's a stretch to say the person is out of the lane space when touching the floor outside the lane space.

And, the biggest issue is 9-1-9 that says only the feet can't be beyond the lane space marks.

That's just an additional requirement. It has nothing to do with touching the floor outside the lane space. Don't reach with the foot, OR don't touch with any other body part -- do either one and you've violated.

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

But, a person is OOB if touoching OOB, not "all the way" OOB. And, a person is in the two-point area (aka "out of the three-point area") when touching the two-point area, not all the way in the two point area. Similarly with the lane (three seconds), back court, etc. I don't think it's a stretch to say the person is out of the lane space when touching the floor outside the lane space.

That's just an additional requirement. It has nothing to do with touching the floor outside the lane space. Don't reach with the foot, OR don't touch with any other body part -- do either one and you've violated.

Remember, I agree with you in practice. (Well, at least until my final year.) It's just interesting to note in all of your examples, such as OOB, 3-pt. vs. 2-pt. shots, etc., there is something specifically mentioned in the rules about what is in or out. For OOB, the rule says, "the player", not just a specific body part. However, in this single case of the FT, the player as a whole isn't mentioned, neither is "the lane"; only the fact that the feet can't break the plane of the lane line. It also doesn't say it's an additional requirement.

Again, I think we all agree we should call the violation. But, as JR is so fond of saying, "Can you give me the specific rule citation to back it up?" (I knew I could find a way to drag him into it...)

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Isn't there a rule about "shall not enter or leave a lane space?" Doesn't touching the lane mean that the player has left the lane space?

I used to think so but now I wonder. There is a rule that declares where a player is located when they're touching two areas. It covered inbounds/OOB, 2-point/3-point, and frontcourt/backcourt. It doesn't mention the lane.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown


Does a player leave the court if he is doing push-ups across the Out Of Bounds line? Can a player scoot up to the free throw line extended and do push-ups across that imaginary line while the shooter is making his free throw attempt? How about doing push-ups with his hands inside the semi-circle and feet outside the 3-point line? How about lying on his back inside the semi-circle and kicking his feet in the air outside the circle?

Re: OOB and 3-point lines....there is a rule that say a plyaer touching both in/out is out....likewise for 3 vs. 2...it's a 2.

There is no specification for the others.