NCAA ban on mascots

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by PGCougar

Are you implying that people from the Domenican Republic (Sosa) or Brazil (Pele) are not "Americans"? Or that they do not have African Heritage and bloodlines?

What? Are you seriously asking this question?

Peace

[tomegun]

Originally posted by johnny1784

I don't understand what makes you the authority on black people. Part of the problem is this information comes from the those who wish to keep things as they are.

I'm a 49er fan so my favorite players are Rice and Montana.
My favorite athlete of all time is Magic Johnson. Watch him on tape and tell me anyone ever played the game like him.

I said it before, who do you think makes rappers rich? It isn't me because I don't listen to it!

I don't think you are very open to understand. You already have your opinion formed and that is pitiful. I'm so thankful that I don't have that burden weighing me down. People are equally mean, racist and ignorant. [/B][/QUOTE]

The same reasons that makes you an authority on Americans.

Pitiful would be when you post your hypocritical feelings.

There is nothing wrong with listening to rap/hip-hop music. Not all rap music degrades women and different races.

Do you have to write or verbally use a color when describing a person?
[/B][/QUOTE]

I'm an authority on being a black American. My point is you claim to know what it feels like to be someone like me when you don't. On the other hand, I don't need to know what it feels like to be you because I don't need to pass judgement. If someone is purple and they want to tell me what it is like I will listen.

How am I being hypocritical? I would really like to know. You seem to be the main one in this discussion with a closed mind.

I know all rap music doesn't degrade women and different races. I'm not the one who ever mentioned rap, if I'm not mistaken it was you. I only wanted to point out who it is that really makes these rappers millionaires. I don't think you addressed that one.

I don't have to write someone's color down. Color has never been a big issue with me. I think people of all colors have the ability to get on my nerves equally.

[PGCougar]

Originally posted by JRutledge

What? Are you seriously asking this question?

Peace

Since you were arguing semantics, I thought I'd ask. Why would you exclude people of African descent who reside in other American countries from the definition of African American? Don't you consider them Americans?

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by tomegun
Although you make some good points I still think you don't understand. You might not be able to make it based on ability and your weight. What if you didn't make it because the color of your skin? What if you could flat out ref but there wasn't "room" for you? Don't be so naive to think it doesn't happen.

I think I'm way too old to be naive anymore. I certainly understand that it does still happen. But, in the absence of a direct reference, how would I know that it's actual racism and not just stupidity? Or, that there was a real, legitimate reason I didn't get that opportunity? I'm not pretending to know what it's like to be discriminated against on a regular basis. And certainly any type of discrimination or racism is just flat-out wrong. And there may be times where it is more subtle than direct. But, is there a chance, in your experiences, that certain events transpired that you were conditioned (based on past experiences and culture) to feel that it was a result of direct or indirect racism, when in realty it might not have been? A simple example: you're driving down the highway, and a white guy in a pickup truck with a gun rack passes you. You look over and see that he sees you as well, and he's not smiling. A few seconds later, he swerves in front of you and cuts you off, forcing you to slam on your brakes. I know I'm going out on a limb, but my guess is you're initial response would be Johnny Redneck just cut you off because you're black. And if he flipped you off while yelling out some racial slur, that would make it obvious. But, what if what really happened was he just got off the cell with Daisy Duke, who just dumped him. Now he's pissed, and he's headin' towards the bar to drown his sorrows with his friends. He's completely forgotten about you from the moment he turned his head away. He did something stupid, but it certainly wasn't racially motivated. Now, is there a chance that there are some of these types of experiences you have faced that you might instinctively write off as just another example of discrimination, when perhaps it might not be? The only reason I mention that is because in my experiences and in the people I know, racism is a non-factor in how people interact; much less so than what I remember while growing up. So, in a similar situation where I'm cut off by the tricked-out Escalade with the 20" rims, my initial reaction is the driver's an idiot. My past culture and history and current experiences might lead me to different conclusions than you might in the exact same situation. That could make me naive, that could also make you overly-sensitive. The truth is probably somewhere in between.

Maybe my little corner of the world is not representative of the world at large. But, at least in my corner, I'm working at making sure people are treated with respect and that my kids learn the same things. It's good to see in Mark's corner he's doing the same. And I know others are as well. There will always be bad people, or just ignorant people. But as long as more of us do the right thing, there will be less ignorant people, and those bricks will disappear.

Oh my god, I'm turning into an idealist. Next thing you know, I'll be thinking it's the Cubs turn to win the World Series, just because Boston did it last year.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by PGCougar

Since you were arguing semantics, I thought I'd ask. Why would you exclude people of African descent who reside in other American countries from the definition of African American? Don't you consider them Americans?

I do not recall that I was arguing anything. I was simply pointing out that there is a difference between race and ethnicity. You can be Black and be Cuban, Porto Rican, Dominican, Brazilian, European and even Australian. Considering that scientists have concluded that all people originated from the continent of Africa, of course you can say they are descendents from Africa. Considering where slaves resided in this part of the world, of course many of the Caribbean countries had slaves and were colonized by the French and Spanish I would say yes these individuals have are descendents from the continent of Africa. Considering the lack of "real" history in our school systems, I can see how you would actually think there was no difference.

Peace

[PGCougar]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I do not recall that I was arguing anything. I was simply pointing out that there is a difference between race and ethnicity. You can be Black and be Cuban, Porto Rican, Dominican, Brazilian, European and even Australian. Considering that scientists have concluded that all people originated from the continent of Africa, of course you can say they are descendents from Africa. Considering where slaves resided in this part of the world, of course many of the Caribbean countries had slaves and were colonized by the French and Spanish I would say yes these individuals have are descendents from the continent of Africa. Considering the lack of "real" history in our school systems, I can see how you would actually think there was no difference.

Peace

Huh? I believe you're jumping to conclusions. I did ask why you wouldn't consider Sosa or Pele an African American, based on your comments to Mark below:

Originally posted by JRutledge
... Pele is Black, but he would never be African-American. That also applies to many Latin players from other countries. Sammy Sosa is clearly Black, he is not an African-American.

So, once again... Why aren't Sosa or Pele considered African Americans? It really was a simple question. Care to answer, or do I have to endure yet another reply peppered with veiled insults?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by PGCougar

So, once again... Why aren't Sosa or Pele considered African Americans? It really was a simple question. Care to answer, or do I have to endure yet another reply peppered with veiled insults?

Hey cougar, let's keep this civil. We've never gotten this far into the race discussion without it descending into a flame war, and I hope we can get at least another page or two!

People that aren't from the US aren't called Americans as a rule, are they? They're Brazilians, or Dominicans, or Cubans, or Peruvians, or whatever. Isn't that right? Folks from Canada don't call themselves Americans.

Sosa isn't an "American" because his citizenship is elsewhere. Same for Pele. That doesn't make them less than amazing -- it's just a fact.

[Dan_ref]

What's a Porto Rican?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Dan_ref


What's a Porto Rican?

I think it's like a Portly Rican.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by PGCougar


So, once again... Why aren't Sosa or Pele considered African Americans? It really was a simple question. Care to answer, or do I have to endure yet another reply peppered with veiled insults?

I think Juulie answered the question perfectly. I just have a feeling you were not asking the question to be serious. You were asking the question to be a smart aleck. That of course is your right to do so, but I really do not know why that would be a hard concept to understand. I guess everyone to you is American.

Peace

[tomegun]

M&M, I understand you point. Pretty good.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Dan_ref


What's a Porto Rican?

Some kind of wine?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Some kind of wine?

That's what I'm thinking...half Port & half Sangria in a tall glass of ice. Maybe add a cherry, an orange peel & a splash of 7-up.

Either that or it's something Archie Bunker might have said.

[drothamel]

The best opinion I have heard on this whole matter came from a representative of the Seminole Tribe (who, by the way, is backing FSU's suit against the NCAA). His comment was something along the lines of, "it's just another case of the white man telling the American Indians what is good for them."

Perhaps the NCAA should worry more about graduation rates and illegal recruiting as opposed to mascots. I'm not really sure how they think they are helping advance collegiate athletics with this rule. If the mascots are offensive, then it should be up to the schools to get something done about it. FSU is a good example-- the Seminole tribe actually supports the school and maintains a very good relationship, from all accounts.

Doesn't the NCAA have something better to do, like say, figure out how to make more profit on bowl games, merchandise, and March Madness without owing the athletes anything?

[Back In The Saddle]

This has been a very interesting and enlightening discussion. If nothing else the whole controversy has an enmormous impact as far as shining the spotlight on the issue and getting people talking about it. But I still think the NCAA went too far in imposing a blanket ban without due consideration of some of the schools' working agreement with the tribes in question.