2 whistle crew

lukealex · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 26, 2005, 02:58pm

In a three whistle crew, some crews will rotate - lead moves from one side of the lane to the other and the center and trail essentially switch duties.

In a two whistle crew, when you are the lead, have you ever, as lead, moved from one side of the lane to the other? Trail doesn't move.

Are either of these procedures recommended or opposed for high school ball under FED rules?

Ref in PA · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 26, 2005, 03:08pm

In two man, as the lead, yes I have switched sides and have had a couple of partners switch sides. This was only done when all 5 offensive players were on one side of the court and the play seemed to be developing in that congested area. I have only done it twice in my career, it does not happen that often.

As far as the trail switching sides, if there is time, the trail would switch sides, but if the ball begins going the other way, the new lead (old trail) usually stays on his side of the court and the new trail (old lead) would switch sides as he follows the play up the court.

This was taught in our chapter last year, it may be a PA mechanic only. Consult your local interpreter.

JRutledge · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 26, 2005, 03:09pm

Part of the NF mechanics involves the Lead official moving to the other side of the court. Where I live this is not taught that much. But also we do not work 2 Person for most varsity contests. The teaching of 2 Person rarely takes place at camps anymore. But if you follow the NF mechanics, the Lead official can go to the other side to look at post players. You still have responsibility for the sideline (on your original side) and the entire end line as well. I just personally do not like this mechanic. The Trail can look at that spot better in my opinion.

Peace

M&M Guy · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 26, 2005, 03:14pm

Quote:

Originally posted by lukealex
In a three whistle crew, some crews will rotate - lead moves from one side of the lane to the other and the center and trail essentially switch duties.

I would hope ALL 3-person crews would rotate. When this started to become more popular in the HS game, I would work with some older officials who said there wasn't any need to rotate. I've since learned that's just not true.

Quote:

In a two whistle crew, when you are the lead, have you ever, as lead, moved from one side of the lane to the other? Trail doesn't move.

Are either of these procedures recommended or opposed for high school ball under FED rules?

Absolutely. I believe it was actually implemented 5 or 6 years ago. The L in a two-person crew should rotate over if the ball and post players are on the T's side. Just remember, the L still has the same essential areas of coverage, as well as that far sideline. Because of that, the L won't rotate as often as in a 3-person crew. But it does put them in a position to see some things that the T might not pick up.

lukealex · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 26, 2005, 03:28pm

The only 3 man I work are IM games and some rec league. Most of the refs for IM have plenty to think about anyways. At first they are also taught not to rotate.

Started rotating in rec league (3-man) and fell in love with it. Assignors just say there aren't enough refs to do 3-man on games or the guys that have been doing 2-man for years don't want to do 3-man.

I've only seen the L rotate in 2-man and only a couple times. From what I've seen in 3-man while rotating it seems like a good idea, just have to get back to your original side quick if need be.

blindzebra · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 26, 2005, 04:12pm

Quote:

Originally posted by lukealex
The only 3 man I work are IM games and some rec league. Most of the refs for IM have plenty to think about anyways. At first they are also taught not to rotate.

Started rotating in rec league (3-man) and fell in love with it. Assignors just say there aren't enough refs to do 3-man on games or the guys that have been doing 2-man for years don't want to do 3-man.

I've only seen the L rotate in 2-man and only a couple times. From what I've seen in 3-man while rotating it seems like a good idea, just have to get back to your original side quick if need be.

Why anyone that has done two person would not want to go three is beyond me. Three person is sooooo much easier.

Only lead should move ball side in two person. Rotation is not the correct term, because trail does not change sides and lead corrects...moves back across...when the ball goes the other way in transition.

WhistlesAndStripes · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 26, 2005, 04:33pm

OK, I'm new to the board, but been around the hardwood for awhile, so I hope I can be a contributor here as well as learn from the rest of y'all.

On that note, let me chime in with my 2 cents on this topic.

On a 2 person crew, if the lead chooses to rotate across the key, the trail is NOT supposed to change sides. It is the lead's responsibility to eventually move back to "his side" of the key eventually whether that's dictated by the location of the ball, post players, or in transition.

As for lukealex's statement that "From what I've seen in 3-man while rotating it seems like a good idea, just have to get back to your original side quick if need be," as long as the C and T rotate properly when the L moves across, I don't see any rush to get back to your original position in any big rush unless the movement of the ball or players dictates such a move.

Mark Padgett · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 26, 2005, 04:49pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Ref in PA
In two man, as the lead, yes I have switched sides and have had a couple of partners switch sides.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

SMEngmann · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 26, 2005, 04:57pm

I am a very active lead when working 2 whistle, and I think going ball side as a lead is very important for proper coverage, especially when you have a fronting situation or if the ball drops below FT extended. T has to cover ball when the ball is in the corner and can't officiate ball and strong side post effectively at the same time. As L on the opposite side, you have a terrible look at the post play from weak side, and moving strong side gives you the best possible look at your first competitive match-up on the post and a good look also at any cutters or screens. So I say if you're doing 2 person in a competitive game, L has to go strong side to ensure effective coverage.

Back In The Saddle · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 26, 2005, 07:42pm

According to the officials' manual, if you come ball-side as lead, you've got everybody on that side, not just the post. That was a change a couple of years ago. It makes sense because the T should then go high and toward the middle of the court to cover the back side and L's sideline.

dblref · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 27, 2005, 06:43am

I have on occasions gone ball-side. I try to discuss this in pre-game and let my partner know that I may be coming over for a look-see, but not making a switch. I know I still have responsibility for the area I left.

Rizzo21 · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 27, 2005, 12:54pm

Brand new official here. A couple questions:

1) 2-man or 3-man, does the administering official (lead) on a free throw ALWAYS stand on the table side of the lane?

2) 2-man concerning the Trail, if the dribbler and defender move over directly in front of you (you can't see between them). Do you move to see the "gap"? If so, would you move nearer the sideline or "up" towards the center of the court?

WhistlesAndStripes · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 27, 2005, 01:56pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Rizzo21
Brand new official here. A couple questions:

1) 2-man or 3-man, does the administering official (lead) on a free throw ALWAYS stand on the table side of the lane?

Yes.

Quote:

2) 2-man concerning the Trail, if the dribbler and defender move over directly in front of you (you can't see between them). Do you move to see the "gap"? If so, would you move nearer the sideline or "up" towards the center of the court?

Yes, you move to get the look you need at the play. Where you move is up to you, wherever you think you need to go to get the best angle.

blindzebra · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 27, 2005, 02:34pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Rizzo21
Brand new official here. A couple questions:

2) 2-man concerning the Trail, if the dribbler and defender move over directly in front of you (you can't see between them). Do you move to see the "gap"? If so, would you move nearer the sideline or "up" towards the center of the court?

It depends on where you are and where the players are. If the players are closer to the division line, I'll normally take a step down and toward the side line. If they are around the 28' area or below, I'll step toward the middle of the court and the division line.

When we move as trail it's kind of an arch. Every time you work lower you work wider as well, down and toward the side line. Every time you move out on the court you should go up toward the division line too, over and up.

Mark Dexter · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 28, 2005, 12:38pm

Quote:

Originally posted by lukealex
The only 3 man I work are IM games and some rec league. Most of the refs for IM have plenty to think about anyways. At first they are also taught not to rotate.

Interesting choice. While it can initially be confusing, at my school, we would (try to) teach new refs to over-rotate, and then wean them off of it through the season. When do you introduce rotations to the new folks?