The thread titled "Ever eject pre-toss" made me think of this, pre-game fight breaks out. However, the officials aren't on the floor yet. I would guess that someone would come get them, however in the mean time who gets the players who are fighting so that they proper penalites are given? The scorer's table????

[Edited by tjones1 on Jun 29th, 2005 at 04:58 PM]

Who cares? :D

Ain't our problem. And I don't think we would have any authority to do anything anyway post-partum. I can't think of any rule that would allow us to do anything about something that occurred before our jurisdiction started- or after it ended.

It would be up to their league to hand out any penalties,etc., I imagine.

Well yes... but who else has the power to eject players?

Only people I could think of are school administrators/staff, and coaching personnel. They have jurisdiction over the event and facilities until officials take the floor. I don't think the officials could do anything about it after the fact, but the staff has the right to discipline (detention, suspension, expulsion) students involved in any sort of fracas on school grounds.

Remember that the scorer's table is part of your crew.

From an official's standpoint, all we worry about is the names that get put in the book pre-game. They are our problem- but they aren't our problem until we walk out on the floor. Anything to do with <b>what</b> names actually do go in the book has got nuthin' to do with the officials at all. We can only penalize acts that happen during our jurisdiction. The players could have been in a brawl at lunch and we still wouldn't have the ability to do anything about that. That's the way it should be too. Their behavior outside of our jurisdiction just isn't our responsibility.

Not until we walk out on the floor they're not. They don't come under our jurisdiction until then either.

T,

I agree that we work with the scorer's table during our jurisdiction, but like JR said, only during our jurisdiction.

Most high school games I've done, the scorer's table is manned by high school students from the home school that get emotionally tied up into the game because of friendships, etc. So anything that they would provide, I would have to take their words with a grain of salt.

Since you're in Illinois, if you ever get the opportunity to work at Providence (New Lenox), wait till you get a load of the old guy that works the table there. He uses an air horn to announce the subs (instead of the WORKING buzzer on the scoreboard), and the looks on the visiting players faces the first time he does it is priceless! I can imagine him trying to break up a fight!

You're right! At post-partum, a fight before a basketball game was the least of MY worries!

I like to sneak those in every now and then just to see if anyone is listening. :D

As stated, no juristition, I'm not doing anything no matter what anyone says. I do not have the power to eject/forfeit or anything until I walk out on the floor.

If somebody runs into the official's locker room before the game and breathlessly says, "Hey refs, there's a fight going on. You better get out there and clean it up!!", is anybody budging off of his/her chair?

Not me.

Chuck I am with you, there is nothing that can make me come out early now!

And I am praying that it is all over by the time I get out on the floor.

And to be honest that early in the game, the whole gym could be in a fight.

Is that something you really want to come out for.

Agreed, no reason for me to get involved or start my jurisdiction early.

Thanks, would you please come back and let me know when it's safe to come out? Oh, and we want waters at half-time.

Consider this case:

In some NCAA games, one official will come out at 30min. prior to tip-off; thus, jurisdiction starts at that point. He/she then returns to the dressing room until 15min. If a fight breaks out during that interval, how would you deal with it?

Same goes for the situation where the entire crew comes on the floor, then leaves for the dressing room until a set point in time.

Heck - if there's a fight before the game even begins, I'm going to want something stronger than water at halftime.

Jurisdiction starts when the official(s) first come onto the floor before the start of the game. The officials now have continuous jurisdiction until they terminate their jurisdiction, by rule, at the completion of the game. During their jurisdiction, it doesn't matter if they are on the court or not--ex.->halftime--, their jurisdiction still continues.

If a fight breaks out during your jurisdiction but not within your actual vision, you just do the best you can. You can't really deal with something you haven't actually witnessed. I think that about all you can do in that situation is take down the stories of the table crew, game management, etc., and pass them onto the league administration. You can deal with what you actually see, but I really don't think that you want to take drastic action unless you actually knew what really happened.

If I come back out into a situation where the players have been fighting and maybe a coupla fans have gotten into it, I would really think about suspending that game. Not forfeiting it--suspending it and then letting the league deal with it.

In men's NCAA, one official is *supposed* to be on the floor 30 minutes before the scheduled start time. I have never seen an NCAA game (men or women) when the refs were on the court more than 15 minutes before the tip.

Had something like this happen during a high school game a few years ago.

Fourth quarter of the JV game and both teams are outside the locker rooms waiting for the game to end to take the floor. Teams have to use the same entrance for both locker rooms so both teams are there.

Anyway, both teams start a little trash talking..things get going and before you know it, two players are figthing in the hall leading to the locker rooms.

Things get broken up and the athletic directors from both schools are at the game. AD's pull both players from the game and send them home. Visitor had a parent take him home. I think the only involvment the refs had were they were told there was a fight before the game and they might have to watch for some rough play early.

Worked out great for the one team, it was their last guy off the bench that got into a fight with the other teams star player.