New 3 whistle mechanic?

[Dan_ref]

I've noticed a couple of times this week what seems to be a new mechanic for 3 whistle.

Inbounding the ball in the FC on the sideline below the free throw line the L is bouncing he ball instead of the T taking it (as would be done in 2 person).

Is this new? If so, is it fed, cca or both?

TIA

[TriggerMN]

A guy got dinged for that at a college camp I was at a couple of weeks ago. I don't think that mechanic has changed.

[tomegun]

The mechanic has changed for college. This is according to the materials handed out at the CIAA camp two weeks ago. The full time out mechanic was also made official since everyone used it anyway.
Also, a kick ball with under 15 seconds on the shot clock will result in the shot clock being reset to 15 instead of 30 or 35. There might have been others but I can't remember right now.

[drothamel]

I saw this mechanic change as well in the Sportorials that I just got from IAABO. I don't think it is actually in the FED manual yet, but they are recommending it in three-whistle. Personally, I don't like it. At the two college camps I went to most recently, we were told not to do it.

For me, it doesn't make sense to have the lead watching the inbounder when he will probably have a post match-up right in front of him. Plus, it is easier for the trail to hand or bounce the ball to the inbounder and then back away, than it is for the lead to bounce the ball across the corner.

[tmp44]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

I've noticed a couple of times this week what seems to be a new mechanic for 3 whistle.

Inbounding the ball in the FC on the sideline below the free throw line the L is bouncing he ball instead of the T taking it (as would be done in 2 person).

Is this new? If so, is it fed, cca or both?

TIA

NCAAW ppl correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is the NCAAW mechanic. I wouldn't be surprised if NCAAM went to it as well.

[tmp44]

Originally posted by drothamel

For me, it doesn't make sense to have the lead watching the inbounder when he will probably have a post match-up right in front of him. Plus, it is easier for the trail to hand or bounce the ball to the inbounder and then back away, than it is for the lead to bounce the ball across the corner.

Agreed.


EDIT: 200 posts...mick does that qualify me for a new pair of fishnets?

[Love this Game]

Originally posted by tmp44

Agreed.


EDIT: 200 posts...mick does that qualify me for a new pair of fishnets?

I am with ou on this one, you prob have someone posting up as the play is starting.

That makes no sense, that is the lazy mans way!!

[Kelvin green]

Originally posted by tmp44

Agreed.

I cant disaree with you more here. The purpose of the lead to toss the ball in is because he is in the perfect position to watch the ball, and closest. If trail and center can't watch off ball then there is something seriously wrong.

The NCAA (men's) hardly ever had lead watch the ball and the play even when the ball was right in fromt of them. I think you are starting to see the changes influenced by NCAA women and the NBA.

I have refereed both systems and prefer the NBA/NCAA women's better. It never makes sense for a trail to make a call from 35 ft away when lead can take a step and call it from 10.

You are right that there will be low post play there but where is it coming from? The ball from the sideline. This mechanic actually gets the lead out toward the sideline bouncing the ball and watching the Whole play develop.

Trail an center watch these types of plays all the time but when we become lead we magically transform into someone who can only watch the post players...

When the ball is in the primary referee it.

[tmp44]

Originally posted by Kelvin green

I cant disaree with you more here. The purpose of the lead to toss the ball in is because he is in the perfect position to watch the ball, and closest. If trail and center can't watch off ball then there is something seriously wrong.

The NCAA (men's) hardly ever had lead watch the ball and the play even when the ball was right in fromt of them. I think you are starting to see the changes influenced by NCAA women and the NBA.

I have refereed both systems and prefer the NBA/NCAA women's better. It never makes sense for a trail to make a call from 35 ft away when lead can take a step and call it from 10.

You are right that there will be low post play there but where is it coming from? The ball from the sideline. This mechanic actually gets the lead out toward the sideline bouncing the ball and watching the Whole play develop.

Trail an center watch these types of plays all the time but when we become lead we magically transform into someone who can only watch the post players...

When the ball is in the primary referee it.

Kelvin, I see your point, but I must disagree with the last statement. That sideline call, at least until I'm told differently, is NOT the L's but the T's. Case in point, ball goes out on the sideline, who blows the whistle? Not L but T. Why? Because the L's primary is NOT that sideline but the post play out to the 3 point arc. So why just because on an inbounds does that change? IMO, and many others might I add, it doesn't.

In addition, the L should be out towards the sideline anyways doubling the line on a throw-in situation, therefore, he's already at the angle needed to "watch the whole play develop." I'm sorry, but when two-to-four 6'10" guys are banging for position underneath the hoop on a throw-in, the last thing I want to be worried about as the L is a five-second count.

[Kelvin green]

I am suggesting that when the ball is in leads area that ther lead has the ball. This is no different than any othr time on the floor.

The who is going to call the sideline stuff in hooey anyway...
Ball goes OOB high in a two person game who calls it most of the time even though its lead's line... Trail! Trail because trail had the ball, was refereeing the ball and the ball went OOB on far side line.

In NBA (and NCAA womens) when the ball is below FT line lead has the ball and the primary area is the ball not the low post guys.
When the ball is out there towards sideline how is it any different on a throw in on the baseline when the lead hands the ball, starts a five second count and refs the ball, and has secondary responsibility for the ball going into the low post? On the sideline versus baseline.. might be an extra few feet away from the basket but lead is still closer to ref the play cersus trail or center

I belive this is a common sense mechanic

[mick]

Originally posted by tmp44
EDIT: 200 posts...mick does that qualify me for a new pair of fishnets?

Todd,
I don't use 'em or even think about 'em.

U.P. here in Lake Superior, fishnets are quite common on some Native American trout/salmon boats. Is there enough water in your area to actually use them?

However, I can certainly offer an Attaboy!


mick

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Kelvin green
I have refereed both systems and prefer the NBA/NCAA women's better. It never makes sense for a trail to make a call from 35 ft away when lead can take a step and call it from 10.

This last comment, Kelvin, just doesn't hold water. You may not want the T to call a foul on a 3-point shot from the corner in an NCAAM game. But then it's ok for the T to call a foul in the post while the L administers the sideline throw-in? What sense does that make? If it's ok in one system, it's ok in the other system.

To me, the NBA system is worse b/c it forces two officials to shift their field of vision more often than the NCAAM system. Example: A1 in the post has the ball and then passes it to A2 in the Lead's corner, outside the arc. A2 then passes back to A1 who turns and attempts a try. This is a basic play that is run all the time in both systems.

Now, what is happening during this play in the two systems? In the NBA system, at the beginning of the play, the Lead has the ball in the post and the T has the off-ball stuff in the corner. Now when the ball is passed to the corner, the L shifts his eyes (and position) to the corner and the T shifts his eyes to the players banging for position in the post. Both officials shift the field of vision. Then when the ball is passed back to A1 in the post, the Lead closes back down and shifts his eyes to the post, while the T shifts his eyes back to the corner and screening action. Again, both officials shift their field of vision.

In the NCAAM game, the Lead always officiates the post play throughout this play. Neither official has to adjust position or field of vision. This just seems to me to be significantly and obviously better for consistent officiating.

In the NBA system, the Lead cannot see the whole play develop between A1 and B1 in the post if he has to take his eyes off them to officiate the possible 3-point attempt in the corner. He just can't. And the Trail can't officiate the post-play as effectively as he could officiate the 3-point shot. He just can't.

I've worked both systems too (although admittedly, not a lot of the NBA system), and I personally think the NCAAM areas of coverage are better by far than the NBA coverages. JMO, obviously.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by tmp44

NCAAW ppl correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is the NCAAW mechanic. I wouldn't be surprised if NCAAM went to it as well.

We are talking about a new mechanic for the men.