I've noticed a lot of officials saying this prior to handing the ball to the thrower on a throwin. Is this a college mechanic or what? Do you guys say "play" before handing the ball? Just curious, should I start doing it?

I've heard guys say it, too. It's not a college mechanic. It's just something they picked up. I always say "Spot!" or "You can run" before handing/bouncing the ball to the inbounder. But that's just me; again, not an official mechanic.

I've never said it, and most of the refs I work with don't say it either. I have heard some say it, but only in a context of many different things going on before a throw-in, such as coming out after a time-out, there's a question at the table, then a kid's shoe needs to be tied, a small child runs out on the floor with a parent running after it, and the band is finishing the last verse of In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida. I've heard some say "Play!" almost in the context of, "Let's get this going; I'm tired of standing here!". But as usual practice, I don't believe it's something that needs to be done. However, as mentioned many times before, if a supervisor or assignor wants you to do it, then you will do it.

I'm talking about officials saying this on every throw-in in the front court. I agree that after a break (like the ones you cited) we should make the players aware that we're bout to start again, that is why I blow my whistle and then hand the ball away.

Blowing the whistle coming in from a long delay (timeouts, injury, multiple subs, scorer's table issues) is the recognized mechanic by the Fed. Some guys that I have worked with in higher level games also blow the whistle on a baseline inbound staying in the frontcourt. I don't know if this is the official mechanic for NCAA/NBA, but when in rome....

After Bart has switched the church organist's sheet music, she is frantically playing In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida.

Homer leans over to Marge and says slyly, "Remember when we used to make out to this hymn?"

:D

"In the Garden of Eden, babyeee." :D

To answer the question, I usually say, "Spot or you can run," for the thrower, and a ,"Straight up," for the defender.

I do this. I'm not sure where I picked it up. But it simply lets the players (some of whom may not be looking toward the thrower) that the ball is coming in.

I've always used, "Here you go" before handing the ball to the thrower and may precede that with, "Are you ready?"

IMO, I've never liked "Play" because while it might be a quick saying, it sounds too curt to me and I want to sound more approachable.

Similarly, I say, "You have the full baseline" or "Remember, you have to stay in that spot."

Just like how I wouldn't want a kid using one or two word lines on me, I try to use full sentences because it really doesn't take that much longer, it's more respectable and is a little step that I think builds more rapport.

In NCAA-W, the mechanic is for the L to blow their whistle before a throw-in in the front court. And, as mentioned, it is a Fed. mechanic to blow the whistle after a delay of some sort before any throw-in. As far as saying something before every throw-in, I've been told to not draw attention to yourself by doing those types of things, such as saying something before every throw-in, and going "tweet, tweet, tweet" with the whistle instead of one, authoritative blast. (I was told that by some rockin' robin...apologies to the younger crowd...) It just appears, for lack of a better way of putting it, less professional, especially in the higher levels. If other officials in your area aren't doing it, then it does draw a little unnecessary attention to yourself because you're doing it differently. Of course, if it is standard in your area, by all means do it. I would think it's also acceptable at lower levels, because you almost as much a teacher as a referee. But I've found as I go to camps, these are the little, seemingly unnecessary habits that I had picked up over time and had to "unlearn" to make me look more professional overall.

If you say "Spot or you can run", how does he know which one he can do? ;)

I used to say, "You have the whole baseline" until one kid said to me in a panic, "I have to hold here?!?!" So now I just say "You can run" or "Spot".

I'm not too concerned with building rapport in these situations. I'm more concerned with being able to say to the coach, "Coach, I told him he had to stay" after calling a violation.

An especially loud whistle before a throw-in is also a useful mechanic, I've found, when in small gyms with yappy parents sitting on the sidelines. :D

BTW, before FC throw-ins, I always say "IN" - and use a short whistle after delays of any kind.

I seem to recall some disagreement on another thread a while back on whether to tell a player they "have the whole baseline" or not. I usually do - something short, like "WHOLE BASELINE" or "ON THE SPOT".

I normally say, you may run the baseline. This is your spot.

I say "Ready", "You can run the line", or "It's a spot throwin".

I just slap the ball then give it the the player about to inbound the ball. Don't really know how I started doing it, but it works for me.

With boys, it doesn't seem to be as necessary. In girls' games, I often say something to get the attention of the thrower, who isn't looking at the ball. For some reason, girls usually just aren't noticing, and won't take the ball. I either blow the whistle, or yell, "Play" or say, "Ready?" or something that lets the thrower know to look.

Why don't you just holler in their ear "BallBallBallBallBallBallBallBallBallBallBallBallB all........"?

That should get their attention. :D

I was trying to look this up on the computer version of the rule book, but my search didn't pull the right section up.

Where would I find, or, please just describe the referee's mechanics on a throw-in?

My primary question is, In the NBA and I think NCAA, I notice the refs will toss the ball to the inbounder, which does allow them to be in a better area to watch what is going on. But in high school, a hand-off is primarily used. Is it stated in the rule book how to handle transferring the ball to the player on throw-ins?

I had a game last year and I just got the sense that this one ref really wanted to get home. He changed the pre-game warm-up from 15 minutes to 10, (starting the game 5 minutes early), he changed half-time from 10 minutes to 7, and then in the second half I noticed he stopped handing the ball off and instead started tossing the ball to the inbounder. Well one time my inbounder wasn't expecting the toss and fumbled it onto the court, and was called for a violation.

TigerBball,
In the Officials Manual it says hand or bounce, not toss.
(Maybe it says something else, now, but I doubt it.)

I bounce on <U>all</U> sidelines and backcourt end lines <U>without pressure</U>.

I hand the ball for <U>all</U> frontcourt end lines, and I hand the ball for backcourt end lines <U>with pressure</U> (to avoid that critical fumble situation of which you write).
mick

Thanks Mick

As I thought about it more, I would assume that most refs hand off in Jr. High (which is what I coach) because it takes too long to try to point out or explain to the 12-13 year old player where to stand. The hand off lets you as a ref set the spot for the throw in, because it seems to be common for the players to keep moving toward the ref if he plans on "bouncing" the ball to him. So then the ref has to say "back up", or "hold your spot" etc.

After a few Jr. High games I would think most guys would give up on the bounce and just hand-off for simplicity sake.

Thank you for the clarification though, I really thought in high school you were supposed to hand-off.

Coach,
In my opinion, the junior high player wants to be treated the same as a varsity or college player. With that in mind, I generally handle Jr. High ball the same way, same mechanic.

There are occasions where, like you say, the player will come to the official, but in those instances (particularly early in the season) I use a *small* stop sign with the player and say, "Yer good.", as I am backing away to make the bounce. Sometimes, I have to verbalize the same thing for those newer/younger varsity players.

They git it quickly enough. ;)
mick
<HR>
My *small" stop sign is an open palm directed lower than the face.

The Junior High player wants to be treated the same way as a high school or college player, ain't that the truth.

You have just summed up why it takes a special type of coach to coach Jr. High. They want all the star treatment of a varsity player but want to put in the effort of a rec league player. My job is to get them to put in the effort of a Varsity player and be happy if I treat them like a rec league player.

What ends up happening is they start putting in the effort of a Jr. High player, and I ease up and treat them like a Jr. High player. Then we can start learning this wonderful game together.

You started doing it your Junior year in HS when your coach made your the thrower on all inbound plays and now you keep having flashbacks to those glory years. :)

Even with doing all that, he probably only got home 9 minutes earlier. WOW! Why do these guys keep accepting games if they don't want to be there?

I save that for when a player is blankly looking around trying to figure out where to throw the dead ball.

And as long as we're on the subject, I've noticed a change this year in the "BallBallBallBall.." It seems to have evaolved into "DeadDeadDeadDeadDead..." Anyone have any clue why?

I'm not sure you get extra "points" for originality!

:rolleyes:

I've seen some say "BallBallBall..." whenver they closely guard someone. This is whether or not the offensive player has used their dribble. Then there would be a change to "DeadDeadDead..." to seemingly alert the defense to the fact that the dribble was used. Perhaps players now play defensive a little more tightly in hopes of getting the 5 second count.

Don't think so, Nu1.
I'm thinking the trap is on, or the trap is off.

The di,di,di,di,di,di,di,di,di is merely easier to say and less breath consuming, cuz you don't hafta close your mouth for the "B".
mick

Here's all you need for the FT lane. If the shooter has 2 FTs coming, you say, "TWO!" If the shooter has 1 FT, you say "ONE!" If it's one-and-one, you say, "ONE-AND-ONE!"

Don't try to be clever. Just give the information you need to.

And please, never call a female player "princess". That's pretty condescending, IMHO.

Perhaps. But the times I remember hearing and seeing this did not involve a trap. It was "DeadDeadDead..." once the dribble was used.

It's the 'or something' that I would be concerned about. There is usually a negative connotation associated with being called a 'princess', and it might just be best to avoid having to deal with any misunderstandings... That being said, I think that there are appropriate times for some humor.

My personal preference is to refer to the boys as "gentlemen" and the girls as "ladies." As in, "nice hustle, gentlemen," after a held ball scramble.

As far as throw-ins are concerned, I always try to ask the thrower if he or she is ready before I hand it over (of course this doesn't apply if I think they are causing undue delay). If I am going to bounce it, I let the thrower know I am going to bounce it. I always try to be very deliberate and exagerate my signal when letting the thrower know if it is a spot throw or an end-line run. I want everyone to know what is going on.

For free throws, I will occaisionaly take that time to address something short with the players, since everyone is there. I may say, "nice job everyone, now keep it up." Or, "let's keep our hands off the cutters, please."

I am of the opinion that if you keep it short and direct, you can almost never over-communicate.

Age is no excuse
 

Being 18 is not an excuse for being unprofessional. I would hope that you would take your officiating responsibilities seriously and execute them to the best of your abilities. Coming up with cute nicknames for the players is not one of your responsibilities. If you want to get ahead in this business, you have be a professional.

My personal preference is their *<I>Number</I>* or <I>Color</I>.
mick

Mick,

Agreed, I go with number or color when I am addressing an individual player. I was just refering to a group of players.

I didn't say not to have fun. I said don't be clever. Sometimes it comes across the wrong way. There's nothing wrong with having fun at the appropriate time. And sometimes, the FT lane is the time for that fun. When I've fumbled the ball after a made FT and one of the players grabs it for me, I sometimes say, "Good hands. That's why you're still playing and I'm not." But when you're administering the FT is not the time to be clever. The information might get lost, or the comment may be distracting to the players.

[/b]I already told you. In my opinion, calling a sweating, athletic young woman "princess" is condescending, since she's obviously not going for the princess look. When she's dressed for the prom (and she's your date), it's appropriate to say "You're as beautiful as a princess". But the basketball court isn't the time to say it. Others have mentioned professionalism, and I would have to agree that "princess" doesn't come across as being professional.

Never heard of it. I doubt I would care much for it.

-----------------------------------------------------------
My high school team won the state championship when I was a senior. Even at 6'1 I was too short and too slow to make the team. Out of five starters, 3 played college basketball and two played college football. One of those two went on to play for the Packers. That's why all four years of letters on my letter jacket were for Band!

-----------------------------------------------------------
brainbrian,
I'd forego the soldier/princess thing. It's a little condescending and a little too familiar IMHO. I'd opt for Sir and Mam, or ladies and men/gentlemen. You have to be very careful to guard yourself against any hint of something that could be totally innocent but misconstrued (Sp?) these days.

I think you're looking a little too short-term when you say you're not concerned with building rapport. Developing a good relationship with others is probably the biggest challenge we have as officials and anything we do to make things easier is beneficial. As we all know, players end up becoming coaches, ADs and even officials in the future and being able to establish a good relationship early on increases our credibility, professionalism and presence with everyone in the gym.

And maybe we can all go for cookies and warm milk after the game too.

You're only as good as your last call, and only then if that call happened to go in the favor of that particular coach/player/team. Been that way forever and it ain't gonna change no matter how warm and fuzzy you try to be. A good official is seen but not noticed and doesn't waste time politicking.

Note that I'm <b>not</b> saying not to be polite- and communicative when necessary. Treat 'em with the respect that you expect them to show to you. It's just that I've found that coachs and players usually would rather concentrate on the game rather than bother with us trying to build up that ol' rapport with them. The only rapport they usually want during a game is getting their "fair" share of the calls--i.e. about 75/80% of them.

Jmo.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jun 26th, 2005 at 03:46 PM]

God forbid we should be polite!!

No offense, Dribble, but if you read my whole reply, I said I'm not concerned with building rapport in these situations. Rapport is great, but trying to build it while the inbounder is trying to decide which play to call, and see which teammate is going to pop open, and remember how to run the play he's supposed to call is not the time to do it. JMO.

The only thing that situation calls for is "SPOT!" or "You can run!"

Yeah, I went back and fixed it. In my defense, I had just finished reading one of Ashley's posts. Musta been having a "blonde" moment. :D

Just like with the players, we're going to have to agree to disagree. Attitudes and levels of respect among people may be different in your area, but I've never encountered a situation in LIFE where establishing a good relationship with someone has come back to haunt me or cause problems later on.

You converse directly and politely, by getting the information the player needs.

We are not out there to make friends, and I have seen plenty of officials get into all kinds of problems during games, by trying to be liked.

You get plenty of chances to be positive during a game without trying to manufacture "moments".

A player/coach/ or fan retrieves the ball and gives it to you say, "Thank you."

A player hustles say, "Good hustle."

A player makes a strong move to the basket with some non-called contact say, "Good finish."

If you are approachable and professional in your communication, it will be noticed.

That's all I've been trying to say. Thanks for saying it in English (which, apparently, I wasn't doing :) ).

Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra We are not out there to make friends, and I have seen plenty of officials get into all kinds of problems during games, by trying to be liked. You get plenty of chances to be positive during a game without trying to manufacture "moments". If you are approachable and professional in your communication, it will be noticed.

This is exactly what I'm trying to say, too, so why the disagreement???

If a team has an inbound on the baseline under their basket, I will often say "Ball's in!" as I hand the ball to the player. After long delays I will use the whistle before the hand off for the same purpose. After a TO, I will tell the inbounder whether they have the spot or the whole baseline. I do not verbalize on every throw-in, usually just on those occasions above.

I don't say "play" or give any other verbal indication that the ball is live. Saying "play" has been suggested to me before, but I never picked up on it - I tend to think that if the defense (or the inbounder's teammates) aren't paying attention, that's their problem to deal with, not mine.

I generally say, "Ball!", in the front court if the players are not focused for one reason or another.
mick

I must of misunderstood you saying you did not like short and to the point communication and that you were hoping to build a rapport with the players...silly me.:rolleyes:

Endline: "You can run it if you like"

Spot: "Spot and hold it." (while pointing)

Followed by as i hand the ball to the player

"here we go"

"aight"

"its live"

Just a small reminder, the correct term should be endline.

Good point about the players sometimes being out in la la land. I prefer to say, "Play!"

That's a baseball umpire's mechanic. Maybe that's why I can't use it, ... like the foul tip signal. :)
mick

I normally say Spot or You Can Run Also. Just so they know what they can do.

That way when and if you do have to call a violation you can say you told him or her to stay.

In my opinion spoken words of "play", "ball in" are not classified as being mechanics, signals or procedures. It is a form of communicating to others called acceptable communication skills. Signals are listed on an Official NFHS Basketball Signals chart in your manual. I do agree the "tip ball" signal is not a proper basketball mechanic but may be used when during a dead ball for non-verbal communications. Just like if you are unable to hear the coach speaking to you from a distance, you may want to use some kind of body language to communicate (pulling on your earlobe).

johnny1784,
Major League Baseball has another opinion.

<U>Official Baseball Rules</U>:
"<B>PLAY</B>" is the umpire's order to start the game or resume action following any dead ball."

:)
mick

Yes, I do know and agree with you that the above applies for baseball but to me why not use during basketball games for communication purposes only? For high school basketball, resume play begins with a whistle, hand (bounce only on sideline) ball to thrower and signal to start clock appropriately when touched in bounds.

For high school basketball, <font color = red>resume play begins with a whistle</font>, hand (bounce only on sideline) ball to thrower and signal to start clock appropriately when touched in bounds.
[/B][/QUOTE]On an ordinary throw-in? And where may I find that directive?

On an ordinary throw-in? And where may I find that directive? [/B][/QUOTE]

Football manual?
Volleyball manual?

Football manual?
Volleyball manual?
[/B][/QUOTE]I'm pretty sure that it ain't in the <b>basketball</b> manual. I've been wrong before though, so I'll await enlightenment.:)

For high school basketball, <font color = red>resume play begins with a whistle</font>, hand (bounce only on sideline) ball to thrower and signal to start clock appropriately when touched in bounds.
[/B][/QUOTE]On an ordinary throw-in? And where may I find that directive? [/B][/QUOTE]

Football manual?
Volleyball manual?
[/B][/QUOTE]I'm pretty sure that it ain't in the <b>basketball</b> manual. I've been wrong before though, so I'll await enlightenment.:) [/B][/QUOTE]

It is in the manual but you're correct that it would only apply after a long delay, between quarters and after a time-out/injury.

We've been awaiting your enlightenment for years... ;)

However, I agree with you. There is a comment about blowing the whistle after an undue delay of some sort, but there is no whistle or spoken mechanic for starting a normal OOB play. It is exactly like the tipped (foul) ball signal. Just because you see several people use it doesn't mean its acceptable. As officials we need to be as uniform and consistent as possible, because that is our communication. The communication needs to be the same in Philly, Dallas and Portland. It is not our job to bring the other team back from la-la land, if they aren't paying attention. If we do our job correctly, in the proper sequence, then we are in effect penalizing the one team that is ready when they're supposed to be, if the other team isn't ready.

We've been awaiting your enlightenment for years... [/B][/QUOTE]That would be the same as me taking my head out my stanchion,right?

Only if it's tipping.

Valid points but you or my written post was misunderstood. I am referring to resumption of play and not when team A is late or won’t stand at the requested spot. I merely was using a comical moment when the thrower has his/her attention on team players or coach. No where in the manuals does it stipulate an official can not speak out loud to a player. May be your state association and or district area association does not permit certain communications during a throw-in but one should amend to use professional communication skills when necessary.

Speaking of tipping...JR is so cheap he thinks tipping is a city in China....hey, is this thing on...?

Wrong thread. I'm pretty sure there's one in the General forum where your "material" would fit. :D

Communication is essential. I'm not saying we shouldn't communicate with the players, I'm just against the announcment-type comment, "Play!". Or, "Ready!". Or, "I'm going to hand the ball to the player that's out-of-bounds, so I sure hope everyone is ready to go, because I sure am!" It just draws too much attention to us when it's not necessary. I almost always say something to the player as I'm handing (or bouncing) the ball to them. "You're on the spot." "Ready, 22?" "Got the right play from coach?" But it's just between me and the player, not the big, overall announcement.

Thank you very much for coming. Dan will be in the General Forum all week.

Drive safely, and don't forget to tip your waitress.

Which is different than tipping a cow.

(Oh, oh. Dan, I may be joining you over there shortly.)

For me, a fair amount of the time, the player I'm handing the ball to needs the "big overall announcement." If I skip that part, we never do get a throw-in carried out.

Is it too late in this thread to go off on a tangent? What do you do when you're ready to hand the ball for the throw-in, and the player who is supposed to do the actual throwing is standing just in-bounds, waiting for everyone to be in place? Do you just wait? When is this delay? When do you say something? When is it illegal?

My wife said she started doing Tai Kwando. I was OK with it until I found out Tai Kwando is some Chinese guy down the street.

Thanks. I'll be here all week. Try the veal.

It's never too late to go off on a tangent. And, apparently, never too early, either. :D

I've had this happen a couple of times as well. Sometimes you just have to be a little more assertive in getting their attention. I've grabbed their arm and (gently) pulled them where they needed to be. Of course in this day and age, use with extreme caution. Another thing I've done is stand directly in front of them so they have no choice but to look at me, and then I tell them they need to back up a little, or send them to the right spot. Usually, it's just a matter of the player missing the play call from the coach, and they're hoping coach will say it again. Of course, after all this, if you feel they are ignoring you on purpose, you can always start the resuming play procedure. (I think there's an article or two about that on officiating.com. ;) )

Watch your feet.

What I did was to reach forward to hand her the ball, and as she started to take it, pulled it away, and it made her look at me. I gestured to the oob spot, and then re-handed the ball. In the process, she took the ball, and then I started the count. After the second one of these, she didn't do this anymore. But it was clearly a tactic that she was using to stall for time, and I wondered if I didn't confront it, how far it would go. Wasn't willing to experiemnt since it wasn't a running clock. If I get a chance to play around with this, I"ll report back.

If they refuse to take the ball, forcibly hand it to them (obviously without knocking the wind out of them or the like).

If they still don't take it, put the ball on the floor and start counting.

"Toe-check"

Recently had a game where the thrower would bend down and fiddle with his laces so his team could get set. On the second time, I put the ball beside him and started counting. They decided not to do that anymore. I can appreciate the coach preparing his team to do such a thing but hey coach, I've got another game after this one and we don't need to run behind.

[Edited by ChrisSportsFan on Jun 28th, 2005 at 11:08 PM]