Regionalism in Officiating

[drothamel]

I didn't want to take up space on the other thread, but an interesting discussion was beginning there...

The comment was made in that thread that West Coast officials are more laid back than East Coast. I contend that officials in the South are very different from officials in the Northeastern part of the East Coast. There is a definite style difference that I have experienced. Just spent some time with officials from Texas and the midwest, and their philosophies seemed closer to those in the Southeast, but just a bit different.

It all begs the question-- Just how regional is officiating?

[TriggerMN]

Just as regional as the play. Big 10, Big 12, MCC, etc. in the north typically have lower scores because play is more physical and they don't fast break as much. In the east and south (ACC, Big East, SEC) there are alot of high scoring games with alot of fast breaking. Out west (Pac 10, Big West, WAC, MWC) I would say that both the officiating and the play is closest to "by the book," i.e. most officials call the same type of game, and the players seem to be more fundamentally sound.

Alot of it has to do with the fact that this is how each region's high school games are played as well, and for the most part, western kids stay in the west, northern kids in the north, etc.

[mj]

I believe there is regionalism in high school as well. I read on here about how you are all "whacking" them for this and for that. I have not given an unsportsman-like T in over two years, coaches included.

Now maybe it's that I'm mellowing out a little but I know in my area there are very few T's handed out.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by mj
I believe there is regionalism in high school as well. I read on here about how you are all "whacking" them for this and for that. I have not given an unsportsman-like T in over two years, coaches included.

Now maybe it's that I'm mellowing out a little but I know in my area there are very few T's handed out.

High School officiating is very regional. Out of all the time I have been an official and come to this site and others, you learn very quickly what is done in your area does not apply to other areas. I remember one time we got into a big discussion about a certain rule application and just about everyone said this rule was so important and should be applied to the letter. Later that summer I attended a camp and this very rule came into question. The camp was run by the head clinician of our state and not only was his opinion completely contrary to many here, he made it clear as officials we had better things to worry about.

I have also noticed that guys on this site give Ts for all kinds of thing I would never give a T for. Or at least where I am officials talk to players and coaches. This is definitely a regional thing. Because those that give a lot of Ts, usually are not respected. It is really the case if the Ts given for very technical actions.

Peace

[zebraman]

A lot of times, I think that officials tend to say it's a "regional thing" when it's just the opinion of a particular official they listened to. Good officials are good officials. We've had officials transfer to our area from other parts of the country and the ones that excelled in the area they came from also excel here.

An official who "leads the league" in technicals is generally overly-sensitive and not respected no matter where he/she refs. On the flip side, an official who doesn't expect sportsmanship and lets coaches go nuts without doing anything about isn't respected either. Doesn't matter if they ref in Timbuktu, Tacoma or Tuscaloosa.

I have heard two of our state tournament evaluators say things that contradicted each other. When pressed on it, they looked it up and one of them admitted they were wrong. I've also seen where one of our fine observers got confused between a HS rule and a college rule and later straigtened it out. Happens to the best of them.

Z

[JRutledge]

I know in 3 Person mechanics the NF allows the Lead official to bounce or hand the ball to the thrower. The Head Clinician (with consulting with rules interpreters and the state administrator) mandated that officials only hand the ball to the thrower.

Another mechanic is we do not have the lead official in 3 Person mechanics give a 5 second count. I asked a question about this a few weeks ago and it was clear that was not what was taught in other areas.

We have had 3 Person in this state for the playoffs since the 1997-98 season. There have been numerous variations with mechanics and things the NF never clearly stated or gave options. I can even tell you of rulings that the officials were instructed to enforce or not enforce. I can think of a Muslim girl that did not want to play basketball with shorts and here headdress. After some officials did not allow her to play, the IHSA told us to not enforce the NF rules to the letter in situations like this. They also made it clear that in order for officials to allow a player to not adhere to the NF uniform rules, the IHSA office had to be contacted and a letter approving this religious expression. We were even giving a very specific ruling about insulin pumps that was not made clear at the time by the NF.

All these examples I talked about are just basketball situations. I could go on and on if I talked about football and baseball. I even worked in Iowa for a couple summers and there were things they wanted that was totally different at that time then what the Illinois wanted.

Peace

[brainbrian]

I've heard people say that the, "You should never call fouls outside of your primary coverage area" line is only a St. Louis, Missouri only thing.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by JRutledge

I have also noticed that guys on this site give Ts for all kinds of thing I would never give a T for. Or at least where I am officials talk to players and coaches. This is definitely a regional thing. Because those that give a lot of Ts, usually are not respected. It is really the case if the Ts given for very technical actions.

Peace

Gee, if it's not J Rut's way it's not respected? Do you have any idea how arrogant that paragraph sounds?

[tomegun]

Blindzebra, his statements shouldn't surprise anyone since this topic is perfect for his favorite saying/putdown.

I'm sure there are some great officials from Illinois. However, there are also great officials from all over the country which means the state of Illinois does not do things so much better as Rut would want us all to believe. I'm sure he will say something like "...I'm respected by the other officials in my area...blah, blah, blah."

[icallfouls]

Originally posted by tomegun
Blindzebra, his statements shouldn't surprise anyone since this topic is perfect for his favorite saying/putdown.

I'm sure there are some great officials from Illinois. However, there are also great officials from all over the country which means the state of Illinois does not do things so much better as Rut would want us all to believe. I'm sure he will say something like "...I'm respected by the other officials in my area...blah, blah, blah."

I think that you might be missing JRut's point. My interpretation of what he said is that there are officials out there (could be anywhere) that prefer to give T's rather than take control of a particular situation. Officials that are not confident enough in themselves or do not like to have their calls challenged tend to hide behind T's rather than address specific situations.

I think his point is more along the lines that some referees lose their common sense and issue T's when they cannot deal with the situation in a different way. Alot of officials do not like to be questioned and when they are, they start "whacking" away.

Ask most referees who have regularly worked at the state tournament, or on the college level in your area, and I would bet that most of them will say that game management will take care of alot of these situations. Get into a players ear, tell the coach that it is time to move on, etc. Coaches, players, and assignors would more often prefer this type of approach.

As an example, a few years ago we had an official that was working a JV game where the V coach was in the upper area of the gym, which makes him more of a fan than a coach in this case. The coach was commenting on the officiating. This coach has worked at the D1 level and regularly sends kids from his program to the D1 level as well. This only means that he has seen alot of basketball and has some credibility himself. Anyway, the referee decided to toss the coach rather than asking someone from game management to take care of it. The official told him that he would not be allowed to work the V game later that night. Needless to say, that official got a call from the assignor and had the remainder of his schedule suspended for that year.

I do not know JRut from Adam, and I have disagreed with him in the past, but I believe this is more along the lines of what he meant. If not, I am sure he will expound.

[Edited by icallfouls on Jun 16th, 2005 at 11:53 AM]

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by icallfouls

I think that you might be missing JRut's point. My interpretation of what he said is that there are officials out there (could be anywhere) that prefer to give T's rather than take control of a particular situation. Officials that are not confident enough in themselves or do not like to have their calls challenged tend to hide behind T's rather than address specific situations.

I think his point is more along the lines that some referees lose their common sense and issue T's when they cannot deal with the situation in a different way. Alot of officials do not like to be questioned and when they are, they start "whacking" away.

Ask most referees who have regularly worked at the state tournament, or on the college level in your area, and I would bet that most of them will say that game management will take care of alot of these situations. Get into a players ear, tell the coach that it is time to move on, etc. Coaches, players, and assignors would more often prefer this type of approach.

As an example, a few years ago we had an official that was working a JV game where the V coach was in the upper area of the gym, which makes him more of a fan than a coach in this case. The coach was commenting on the officiating. This coach has worked at the D1 level and regularly sends kids from his program to the D1 level as well. This only means that he has seen alot of basketball and has some credibility himself. Anyway, the referee decided to toss the coach rather than asking someone from game management to take care of it. The official told him that he would not be allowed to work the V game later that night. Needless to say, that official got a call from the assignor and had the remainder of his schedule suspended for that year.

I do not know JRut from Adam, and I have disagreed with him in the past, but I believe this is more along the lines of what he meant. If not, I am sure he will expound.

[Edited by icallfouls on Jun 16th, 2005 at 11:53 AM]

I'm sure he'll agree with you, because it is what he always does.

He says something that is controversial then says don't put words in my mouth when people disagree.

[Rick Durkee]

Originally posted by tomegun
Blindzebra, his statements shouldn't surprise anyone since this topic is perfect for his favorite saying/putdown.

I'm sure there are some great officials from Illinois. However, there are also great officials from all over the country which means the state of Illinois does not do things so much better as Rut would want us all to believe. I'm sure he will say something like "...I'm respected by the other officials in my area...blah, blah, blah."

Interesting. I interpreted JR's comments yet another way. I thought he was saying that a culture had developed in his region where referees do not hand out a lot of T's and that the culture there frowns on it. Perhaps the coaches and officials interact in a way that may be different from some places. I also thought he meant that the leadership in his region had made some decisions about how to handle some issues, and that the officials in the area follow and respect those decisions.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by blindzebra

Gee, if it's not J Rut's way it's not respected? Do you have any idea how arrogant that paragraph sounds?

Okay, let's not get into the grenade slinging just because there's nothing more interesting going on. Let it go, BZ. You, as a good official, have bigger things to worry about. As someone very wise said earlier.

[jeffpea]

In addition to working HS games in the Chicago-area, I also work small college games in Illinois and Indiana. I have noticed a difference between Chicago/Illinois guys and Indiana guys. They are really mechanic differences rather than judgement/style of play differences. My experience has been that Indiana guys blow their whistle alot - i.e. to signal the ball is being administered on a thrown in when a sub has just come into the game (similar to what is done after time outs); when throw-in is administered on baseline opposite table, Trail will raise his hand to help start clock (the idea being that timer may not be able to see Lead's signal).

I'm going to a college officiating camp this weekend that will have guys from Hawaii to Florida attending. I seem to remember that guys from the South were very demonstrative with their signal mechanics (I think they watch too many NBA games) and guys from the Texas/Kansas/Oklahoma part of the Midwest tended to project a large presence (booming voice & tried to be physically imposing). I really didn't detect a substantial difference in the type of calls officials were making.

Good officials will learn what the Supervisors of their conference wants called and will call the game accordingly. If you work many conferences, then you've got to be dilligent in preparing for each assignment and follow the Conf. Supvsr's. POE's.

[JAdams]

Does anyone who posts to this board really have experience beyond one (or two at the most) states? Assuming the answer is no, then how can anyone really profess to know if there are regional differences? I say the sample size is way too small to be able to answer the question with facts. All of us merely have opinions.