Thoughts-

-I don't care where he's from, Manu Ginobilli is one of the best players in the league.

-Excellent call by Steve Javie on Ben Wallace's flop. It wasn't a charge and Javie put a stop to the foolishness with the block call. Kudos to Garrettson for watching his partner's back and sticking Wallace in the a$$.

-Boy did they let'em play!!

-I'm sick of that stupid Kryzewski commercial. It was bad enough that we had to withstand it during the NCAA Tourney but this is ridiculous. Enough already.

I second all of those points. It was a very well-officiated game overall.

Very interesting call in the first half. Don't know if you'll remember it. Ben Wallace got an offensive rebound then went for a strong put-back. He plowed over a Spur (don't know who) who was in the RA. Official called an offensive foul. Of course, Wallace points down at the semi-circle, just showing that he doesn't understand the rule.

Since the play originated in the LDB, the RA rules are not relevant. The easy call is the block, b/c everyone can see the defender's feet in the RA, but he applied the rule correctly. Great call and awareness by the official.

What? You got something against a poor kid from Chicago making a litle $$$?

Chuck,
I don't understand (<small>again</small>).
Would you mind briefly clarifying that rule?
RA --> restricted area
LDB --> ?
mick

It is an unfair recruiting tool and if you don't think Coach K saw it that when when he signed up you are sadly mistaken. If they are going to run those commercials they should run them regionaly or have one for EVERY D1 school that participates in basketball. It is a recruiting tool disguised as an American Express commercial.

He's got the weirdest voice!

Coach K
 

Totally agree !
...And not well disguised, either.
mick
<HR>
Jewel, Coach K's whiney whinny voice is killing me U.P. here.

The only problem I had with the game was the timing of the start.

Yes, Tony, Manu is quite special. He runs around like (and reminds me of) a long Steve Nash.

mick

The common misconception about the Restricted Area (RA) rule is that if contact occurs on any defender in the semi-circle, then there can be no offensive foul. But that's not true. Just to clear up a little.

1) The RA only applies to a secondary (or "help") defender. If A1 drives to the basket and his defender B1 stays with him all the way to the basket, then A1 could be called for an offensive foul, even if the contact occurs in the RA.

2) The RA rules do not apply at all if the play originates within the LDB, the Lower Defensive Box. The LDB is a box that is bounded by the the bottom of the jump circle and the endline, and extends 3' on either side of the lane. If you look at the court diagram at http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_1....av=ArticleList ,you can see the markings for the 3' "post up" mark outside the lane if you look closely. If the play starts in that box, then anybody can take a charge, even in the RA. (This is what happened on the Wallace play I mentioned above. He rebounded the ball within the LDB, so that's where the play started. Therefore, no RA rules apply.)

3) Even if a secondary defender is within the RA, the offensive player can still be called for an offensive foul if he pushes or "clears out" with the off arm.

Thanks for clearing this up
 

So, if the offensive player drives to the basket, beating his defender and some interior defender comes over to help out, then if contact occurs within the RA, its a block, correct? Is the line part of the RA? Do both feet have to be within the RA? Can the feet be on the line and the player still be considered in the RA?

Re: Coach K
 

I don't agree, and apparently neither does the NCAA.

It's just another in a series of annoying comercials.

Re: Re: Coach K
 

How can you not agree, everything he says is things he would say to a recruit, it gives more exposure to the University, talks about winning championships and turning boys into men. If that isn't recruiting language I don't know what is. I don't think the NCAA has really had to deal with this type of RECRUITING before therefore they don't really know what to do, and they aren't going to do anything till member institutions start speaking up.

[Edited by w_sohl on Jun 10th, 2005 at 01:08 PM]

Re: Re: Re: Coach K
 

What would you expect him to talk about if not these things? AE pays Tiger Woods to talk about what he's known for, Robert Deniro to talk about what he's know for, Ellen Degeneres to talk about what she's known for...well, not quite...and Coach K to talk about what he's known for.

BTW the NCAA does know what to do about it, they've stated it's no big deal to them.

I would agree that these commercials are annoying.

I guess what irritates me the most is coach K saying that he is a Leader first, then a basketball coach. <sigh> Leader? Leader of what? He's a basketball coach. Teacher I could, and would buy lock stock and barrel, but leader?

I just wonder if John Wooden saw himself as a leader or a teacher that just happened to coach basketball.

It appears someone's head has gotten a tad to large for their hair IMO.


goose

Re: Re: Re: Re: Coach K
 

It is a recruiting tool period. It undoubtedly affects kids decisions when they see this. Coach K is in the business of influcing an individuals decision, hell if I remember corretly he even says something along the lines of if you come to duke he wont only make you a better basketball player, he'll make you a better man. HMMMM, now if that doesn't sound like a recruiting ploy please tell what does. Ellen Degenerate doesn't work for a university nor does she mention one, Tiger woods neve mentions where he went to college, Coach K asks kids to come to Duke in the commercial, maybe not word for word but he does.

As far as the NCAA goes, we all know they don't have a clue what they are doing, big time money programs get caught handing out thousands of dollars and get a simple slap on the wrist while others give a simple ride howm to and individual and 10 bucks for something to each on and a guy loses his job and a university loses a scholarship and forfeits games. The NCAA doesn't have a clue, Coach K is a poster boy for the NCAA, you really think they are going to damage their income?

Re: Re: Coach K
 

Oh, yeah !!???
<small>(snappy comeback, eh?)</small>
mick

Re: Re: Re: Coach K
 

I'm afraid that you're uninfomred with regards to this. ADs, school presidents and conference commissioners complained about the add throughout the NCAA tournament, with the same complaints that you're voicing. THey weren't complaining because he does commercials but because the commercials were aired during a recuriting dead period, the NCAA tourney. The NCAA and Miles Brand released a statement saying that the commercials did not violate any NCAA regualtions.

As for airing them during the NBA Finals, if it's recruiting, it's recruiting. We aren't currently in a dead period. So while I mute the commercial when it comes on for reasons that mick and rainmaker have already stated, I don't see an issue from a recruiting standpoint. He's allowed to recruit at this time.

They should have taped the commercial at the DeanDome.

I'm no fan of the constant Kryzewski commercials, but Duke definately doesn't need a car commercial to help them in the basketball recruiting department . . .

Actually, we're talking about the American Express commercial. :)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Coach K
 

Let's get real here for a second.

99.9999999+% of all HS varsity players have absolutely zero chance of getting a letter from Duke, let alone getting a look from any Duke assistant coach.

Of those who are seriously recruited, how many do you think will make their decision based on some American Express commercial they might have seen on TV?

I know they don't need it, but it sure as h*ll doesn't hurt...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Coach K
 

Actually, teenagers make such decisions on things much sillier than a commercial. When a recruit gets down to making a choice between two perennial powerhouses, very small things can make a difference. The commercial is basically no different that a video a recruit might see while on a visit to a school, with the exception that there are no players in the commercial.

Amen BktBallRef

here's your answer
 

Q: So, if the offensive player drives to the basket, beating his defender and some interior defender comes over to help out, then if contact occurs within the RA, its a block, correct? Is the line part of the RA? Do both feet have to be within the RA? Can the feet be on the line and the player still be considered in the RA?

A: right...if the drive starts outside (above) the lower defensive box (ldb) and the defender (any defender) obtains a legal guarding position outside the restricted area (ra), it is a charge. the line is part of the r.a....according to the rules, if the foot of the defender is on the line of the r.a., it should be considered a defensive foul...

if the drive starts below the l.d.b....the defender can take a charge within the r.a....EXACTLY what was called in game 1...

I didn't know ...
 

"Now in his third NBA season, Ginobili has already won an NBA title, an Olympic gold medal and a silver medal from the 2002 World Championships. He was a two-time MVP of the Italian League and the 2001 Euroleague finals MVP -- quite a collection of hardware for someone only 27 years old."

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Coach K
 

IMO it's highly unlikely that any player recruited seriously by a number of teams at Duke's level will make his mind up based on an American Express commercial. He's more likely to be influenced by his AAU coach who in turn is getting 'advice' from a sneaker company under the table. I suppose it could happen your way, but it's highly unlikely. In any event it's impossible to eliminate from the media all the 'silly' influences on a teenaged recruit. You can't stop the recruit from walking down the sports aisle at the Barnes & Nobles or make him cancel his subscription to Sports Illustrated. What is truly 'silly' though is to whine that a commercial for a credit card company is somehow giving a huge and unfair advantage to a particular school.

I don't see it that way and apparently neither does the NCAA.

Hmmmm, I didn't know that discussing an issue was "whining about it". I guess we need to get rid of this officiating whining board if that's all we do here.

While it may be silly to you, evidently it's not silly to the dozens of D1 school presidents and athletic directors who have complained to the NCAA about the spots. There's been a great deal of dialogue about it and I don't think that it's over. I see both sides of the debate but personally I couldn't care less about the recruiting aspects. You'll note that I haven't advocated wither side. I'm just discussing the issue.

And say what you want about the commercial, it has nothing to do with using a credit card. If that didn't display the AE logo at the end of it, you'd never know it was a credit card spot. The commercial is about Coach K and how successful he and his program have been.

Finally, I'm tired of the stupid commercial. :p

I didn't mean to imply you're whining about it. But a lot of the complaints do amount to just a lot of whining about a silly commercial.

And of course the commercial is about the coach, AE is paying him - and others btw - to attach their names to their brand. You wanna be like Coach K, a succesful basketball coach & West Point grad? Use the AE card. Or maybe you wanna be like Robert Deniro, he's a tough guy who lives in downtown NY. Or maybe you just want to be more like Ellen. We don't care, just use our damn card.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Coach K
 

Actually, it's a commercial. Don't you have a remote control?

No one watches commercials, especially kids under 18.

Plus if they did see it, I suspect they'd be just as annoyed as you were.

It might drive some players to NC!

Except that no one watches commercials.

...and that's why you will see "product placement" in shows starting this fall. (According to FoxNews)

i.e. On "Days of Our Lives"...Bo will hand Hope an American Express card to pay for their McDonalds happy meals, as UPS trucks drive by in the background.

I guess with TVO's and VCR's...companies are not getting enough exposure as consumers zip through the commercials.
Therefore...product placement.

Supposedly the FCC will try to set standards for this saturation of ads during a television show.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Coach K
 

It is a commercial to AE, it is a recruiting tool for Coach K. People do watch commercials, if no one watched commercials why in the hell would companies bother to spend hundreds of thousand and even millions on advertising if "No one watches commercials...". Sure I can change the channel, still doesn't change the fact that not only is it a commercial wanting people to use AE like Coach K, but it is also Coach K putting that little thought in the backs of the kids minds they are recruiting that you know what, maybe Duke is a better place afterall, Coach Williams isn't smart enough to use the AE how can he be smart enough to get me to a national title. And if you don't think 17 and 18 year old kids don't think like that all you have to do is closely follow recruiting in any of the major college sports.

I response to the remote, sure I can change the channel, usually leave the room to do something, however I can't change the channell of the kids that my alam amter is recruiting. Any exposure of a university is a recruiting tool, especially when the coach is there giving a recruitment speech.

[Edited by w_sohl on Jun 12th, 2005 at 12:06 PM]

Re: I didn't know ...
 

That's not a big deal. I can throw my flag from 25 yards away and have the flag land at either point ball held or point of foul. :D

That's not a big deal. I can throw my flag from 25 yards away and have the flag land at either point ball held or point of foul. [/B][/QUOTE]You call fouls from 25 yards away? :eek:

You call fouls from 25 yards away? :eek:

[/B][/QUOTE]

Uh, no.
Poor eyesight.
Good arm.
mick

Re: Coach K
 

You're pretty naive, aren't you Jim?

So you're saying that you've never seen the commercial? Evidently everyone else here has, so I guess that throws you're theory that "no one watches commercials" out the window.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jun 16th, 2005 at 09:14 PM]

Uh, no.
Poor eyesight.
Good arm.
mick [/B][/QUOTE]
http://www.forumspile.com/LOL-Doggy.jpg

Starting this fall?

Like usual, FoxNews is waaaaay behind on their reporting.

Here's a hint - ever watch E.T.?

Here's a hint - ever watch E.T.?
[/B][/QUOTE]Yeah. Man, that was sad when I thought he was gonna die and never get back home. Had me crying. Everything turned out OK in the end though.
http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0083866/...LG_ET-FS27.jpg

Yep, and didn't the folks at M&M's feel stupid after that?!?! Anybody ever hear of Reeces Pieces before E.T.?

No offense to the Carolina fans out there, but I don't think that Coach K needs an American Express Commercial to beef up recruiting. I'm pretty sure all he has to say is, "Wanna play at Duke?" I think that the precentage of McDonald's All-Americans that end up at Duke shows that.

I'd have to disagree, Doc. K does not get every recruit that he wants or goes over. He loses recruits to other schools quite often.

Probably an 8-figure mistake on M&M's part.

Btw, I took that Universal studio tour once- back in the early 90's iirw. An integral part of the tour at that time was showing the technology that allowed them to film that great bicycle-flying scene. Talk about being disappointed. I remember saying to my wife "Are they telling me that ET couldn't <b>really</b> fly?". Bummer! :mad:

Aw, geez!
 

Of course, he couldn't fly without pixie dust.
mick

Ah yes. Faith, trust and pixie dust. I tried that. Fell 15 feet off a roof and broke my A$$.

Don't believe that sh*t, Mick.

Then is there anything worth believing? :)

Of course. You always believe that there's gonna be something on your line at the end of the next cast, don't you, Mick?

Keep the faith!