Did anybody think Reggie should have been called for an offensive foul at the end of game 3 of the Pacers-Pistons series last Friday night?

If you missed the play, he caught the ball, took a dribble or two at the defender (Lindsay Hunter I believe), kind of put his shoulder into him and kind of pushed off with his elbow, then shot and made a 2.

I would have needed to see it close up to make the call, but after seeing the replay 10 times I think he might have gotten away with one.

Any thoughts? Would anyone have called the foul?

I only saw the angle from behind Reggie. It certainly looked like something happened, but I couldn't see through the play, so I can't say for sure what happened.

Reggie has been doing this for years.

Jordan did it too.

It's not entertaining to call that foul, so they don't.

I have to agree with Chuck. Could not see through the play could not make the call. Positioning is everything this is way I work hard to see through the players.

I totally agree with it in not being entertaining to call the foul, just as Jordan's last shot with the Bulls when he pushed off on Byron Russell.

I'm wondering how blatent the act would have to be to get it called.

Here is my real question: Would anyone call this in the same situation of a high school or college game?

If I had the same angle as the TV camera, probably not. It looks like he might've pushed, but it would be a guess. If I had been able to see between them, I would have a better idea if Reggie initiated the contact, how much contact there really was, or if the defender fell back harder than the contact would dictate.

Positioning is everything.

Flop?
 

Not only do I agree with Chuck, I think the defender (Lindsey Hunter) possibility flopped. It was really difficult to tell from the angle how much if any contact was made.

Peace

Definitely a foul
 

However, I don't blame the ref for not calling it. He looked to me to be straight lined when the foul occured. He didn'thave the same angle we had on the replay. He did move to get a better position but it happened so fast. Can't blame him for the no call. Can't call what you THOUGHT happened. Call what you see.

Even seeing the replay with the secondary angle (showing between the two players), where you can see Reggie putting his hand out, it's too hard to tell whether the defender flopped or not. I have no call on that.

Obvious pushoff, and Reggie admitted as such after the game.

When Reggie does that at home, it's never a foul in the NBA. If it was reversed and Lindsay Hunter did that to Reggie in Indy, then maybe it mighta been a foul. However, if Hunter did it in Detroit, he maybe mighta got away with it too.

It's the NBA, folks. Faaaaaaantastic! It's entertainment with And1 rules.

Never try to disect an NBA call. You'll go blind.

Well, that explains my lack of sight; does that also explain the hair on my palms?

In Game 4 of the 1998 second round series between the Bulls and Pacers, Reggie shoved Jordan for the top of the key, into the backcourt, before catching the ball and hitting a game winning 3 at the buzzer. That was probably the most blatant shove that I've ever seen with a shooter trying to get open and it wasn't called.

Reggie has been doing this for years. He has 2 games left in his career. They aren't going to start calling it now.

Very good point :D

I didn't think it was a foul. The contact was minimal at at the NBA level, you would expect that a defender strong enough to play in the NBA could stay on their feet through that contact. I thought it looked like a flop. I thought no call was the right call.

No way. Reggie takes Nash to 7. That's the best way to end it all. Reggies stays around for as long as he can, but Nash still wins the title. :D

There isn't one single official in the NBA playoffs who would make that call. If they did, you can bet they'd be fast-tracked out of the playoffs.

Having said that, I think Russell "over-emphasized" the contact a bit.

Is this what they refer to as "the pro call"?

No call
 

I watched the replay from both angles they showed a few times to see if there should have been a foul called. I thought there was a bit of a flop there. I wouldn't have called it either. It's true, though, that Reggie gets away with more than that normally, but I still thought it was clean enough to let it go.

This was a flop. Reggie Miller couldn't knock Lindsay Hunter down if he had a 2-by-4.

The funnier thing happened about a minute before that, when Richard Hamilton had two fistfuls of Miller jersey, not letting him come off a screen, Danny Crawford called a foul on Hamilton, his 6th. Larry Brown basically blamed the refs for losing this game for the Pistons on that call. Huh? That was the easiest call all night.

Reggie doesn't get by the Pistons, much less the Heat.

I'm with Jurassic on this one. The NBA is just sports entertainment.

All sports are entertainment. High School sports are entertainment. If it was not entertainment, why are people attending games that are not related to the players or personal friends? Sport is entertainment in all forms. Some sports are more entertaining than others. The rules of basketball are set out so the game is fun to watch and play. If you think it was not about entertainment, why are their TV timeouts in basketball built in to the rules of the game?

Peace

JRut:
Maybe I should clarify my statement of sports entertainment. My reference was that the NBA deviates from what I call the "true spirit" of basketball in its purest sense.

No matter how you clarify your statement, the reality is all basketball is nothing like it was first created. That includes all levels of basketball. The fact that we have a 3 point line at every level is a perfect example. I have no problem if someone says they do not like the NBA game. But to make it sound like there is anything less pure is laughable. Then again that is my opinion.

Peace

I'm usually in agreement with you on your opinions and philosophies, JRut, but I've gotta beg to differ on this one. IMHO, high school and college ball is a 'purer' form of basketball than the NBA. I don't think that the arc under the basket helps the integrity of the game. I also don't think that the way physical play is allowed in the NBA is in the true spirit of the game. I think NBA rules are set up to make the product more marketable, not to improve the quality of the game.

What's "purer"? I could argue "purer" means a jump ball after every basket, not all this running in and out of bounds every chance you get. It's all what you're used to. The physical play in the NBA is because the players are bigger, faster, and stronger than other levels, so of course there's going to be more physical play. The same reasoning applies to the contact allowed in a HS game is far more than what would be allowed in a 6th grade girl's game. As for the rules being set up to make the product more marketable, isn't that almost saying the same thing as improving the quality? The NBA is not the same thing as 6th grade girls, and everything else in-between, because the players and their skill levels are different. Maybe people enjoy watching the type of game that's closest to their own skill level (or perceived skill level;))

Maybe that's why I enjoy watching. . . .wait for it. . . .sixth grade girls basketball so much!

If you ever sit down and read the NF Handbook, you will find many rules that were in place that do not resemble today’s game. That has nothing to do with the NBA that has to do with game evolving over time. The NBA rules are for men that are at the top of their game. The rules are not for kids just starting to play or learn the game. All pro leagues have things in the rules that make the game easier to watch. That even includes the NCAA and NF rules. As it relates to physical play, all levels are becoming more physical. More teams are playing defense than they did even in the 80s.

Peace

The Pistons beat the Pacers tonight in Game 6 and Reggie is done. They gave him a nice ovation when he left the game with about 15 seconds left and one of the coaches even took a timeout so that they could have a little more time for it.

However, I did find it a bit odd that after the game one of the officials went up to Reggie and paid his respects just as many of the players were doing. While I realize that the NBA is a profession and all of the people involved are part of the show for the paying fans, which makes the coaches, players, and officials all co-workers when you think about it, to me the official's actions were out of character with the neutral role of the referee. Wouldn't it have been better to meet Reggie in the hallway and thank him there out of view of all of the TV cameras and spectators?

I also noticed the official paying his respects to Reggie, I don't remember which official it was, but he has been in the league for most if not all of Reggie's career. I don't have a problem with him doing what he did at the NBA level of play. I believe they are all professionals and something like this doesn't change my opinion on the officials and how they approach the game.

This was just the official bidding farewell to one of the game's great players, since he probably won't get invited to the retirement party.

I'm not necessarily a Reggie Miller fan or an NBA fan for the matter. Last night I happend to turn on the TV in time to see the last 1.5 minutes of the game (this is the only NBA I've watched all year). I did think it was neat to see the way everyone encouraged and honored Reggie as I think he was one of the good-guys in the league. I know the cameras couldn't catch everything but they did catch one of the officials giving Reggie a hug after the game and I thought that to be about the biggest show of respect. Did anyone else get to see it and what did you think?

It was Bennett Salvatore, #15.

Kudos for him for doing so. He's a senior ref, in the league for 22 years. That's 4 years before Reggie came aboard. I commend the official as a person for paying respects to one of the NBA's greats.

I haven't watched the NBA in a while, but I did catch the last few minutes of this game. Watching the Pistons and especially Larry Brown step out on the court during the timeout and give Reggie Miller an uninterrupted ovation was really nice. And the hug from Salvatore was really nice as well.

Something tells me that Reggie 30 years from now will be equally revered as a broadcaster.

This is just a game. The official did exactly what was appropriate. They were paying a tribute to a player and this official after the game gave Reggie a hug. The game was over right after a tribute. Even Larry Brown called a timeout so that his players and fans could continue the tribute. The Pistons were not in their bench area for the timeout and many players came off the bench all together. Were you upset by the actions of the Pistons because they did not follow the letter of the rules?

Peace

I agree with Rut. These two guys basically came up together through the league. It wasn't adulation, it was a tribute and a good-bye; which was what the moment was for.

This is different from the HS refs in Ohio who got Labron's autograph on the court after they worked his game. This just seems appropriate to the moment, to the occasion, and to the people involved.

I would be willing to bet there were many other officials who would have liked to be Bennett Salvatore giving Reggie a hug last night. It wasn't about cheating, it wasn't about preferential treatment or anything like that. It was saluting someone who was an honest competitor that stuck with the partner he came with for 18 years and did it without physical dominance or the normal game/shot. He will always be able to say he officiated Reggie's last game and he gave him a hug when it was over. That is a milestone to be proud of.

I'm getting a little sentimental just reading this post. That hug was representation of officials worldwide paying respects to Reggie.