I worked a couple of AAU games this weekend that were supposedly using NCAA womens rules.

I watched the game before mine and noticed when one of the officials called a backcourt violation, the table buzzed him over and the violation was not enforced. I asked the official after the game was over about the call, and he explained he was told because there was a shot clock, there was no backcourt rule. I asked two different people at the table and was told it was a tounament rule. I have never officiated any game or tournament that had this rule.

Have any of you ever had a game that used this rule? Are NCAA womens backcourt rules different then Federation rules once front court is established?

I'm not sure what you mean by "once front court is established." But I do know that in NCAA women, there is no 10 second backcourt.

There's still a bc violation that team A can't be both last to touch in the fc, and first to touch in bc after it has attained front court status. Or whatever the darn wording ought to be.

Rainmaker

I did know not to have a 10 second count in the backcourt and not to have a 5 second count unless the ball was held and the player was closely guarded (with-in 3 feet I think for NCAA women). I even got to give the finger whirl for a shot clock reset after a kicked ball.

"Once front court is established" meant front court status had been attained.

I did some AAU women this weekend also, although by women I mean mostly freshman and sophomore high school, and why they have them using a 30 second clock and playing by NCAAW is beyond me, because the earliest many will see that is 3 years from now.

And you don't think those college assistant coaches are out there scouting those girls at this age??

The backcourt rule must have been one of those "special" tournament rules because that is not the NCAAW rule...

Was the "backcourt violation" you saw a 10 second violation or an over-and-back violation? My only guess is the official called a 10 second violation and the table corrected him because there was a shot clock in effect.

I've never heard of an over-and-back violation being eliminated under the guise of NCAA rules in a tournament.

Huh? 30 second shot clock is used in HS, with no 10-second rule. Not sure what you mean.

[Edited by PGCougar on May 16th, 2005 at 05:46 PM]

ranjo, I think you neeed to clarify for us whether you're talking about a 10 second call or an "over and back" call.

There is definitely "over and back" under all rules, including NCAA-W. If the table said no, then my guess is that someone had a misunderstanding of the rules.

BktBallRef -

I'm talking over and back.

At this point I'm convinced the table personnel were confused about the difference between a ten second backcourt count and a backcourt violation.

If this ever happens again I will ask to see a copy of the tournament rules and try to provide an explanation.

Ok, I'm sorry. Shot clock is not used in high school in Texas.

On another note however, can't a college coach tell if a player is good if they are playing under Fed rules??? A few good women ball players get recruited out of Texas (e.g. Baylor) where the high schools don't use a shot clock, or play NCAAW rules.

As long as we're on the subject (NCAA-W), I've got a different question. I had someone tell me this weekend (no names mentioned) that in women's college the 5-seconds holding rule doesn't include a condition that it be closely guarded. IS THAT TRUE!?!?! I thought it was a closely guarded rule, not just a holding rule. This person insisted that to hold the ball for 5 seconds is a violation, regardless of whether the ball handler is closely guarded.

"No name" was wrong.

I agree. Also, another couple of little wrinkles - it can happen anywhere on the court, not just the front court, and to be considered closely guarded the distance is just 3 feet, not 6 feet like NCAAM and NFHS.

Aw, go ahead and give up "no name"! Is it anybody we know? It's only just us talkin'; no one else will know...

Wow...was "no name" somebody I would know? E-mail me and let me know...

you might have met this person, but I'm not spilling. I figure this person will learn soon enough, and I don't want to talk bad about anything that's fixable.