A student asked me - "What if I shoot a 3 point attempt, and it is really high and short. It bounces, then goes in the basket without having touched anything but the floor between me and the basket. Is it a 3?" - I can't seem to find anything in the rules saying that it shouldn't be, because it was a 3 point try. I guess, realistically, this isn't likely to happen, but maybe a 3 point attempt at the buzzer from a long way down the court that bounces before the buzzer, and slipped when it was released so it went way high and short, and then was really lucky.

What do you think?

It would count as a three.

NFHS 5-2:
"Three points are awarded for any ball thrown, passed or shot beyond the 19 foot 9 inch line that passes through the goal. Any other goal from the field counts 2 points for the team into whose basket the ball is thrown."

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If the buzzer went off before the bounce:
the ball would become dead as soon as it hit the ground.

If the buzzer went off after the bounce:
The basket would count.

NFHS 6-7-5:
"The ball becomes dead when time expires except while a try for a field goal or a tapped ball by a player toward their basket is in flight."

"Flight" ends when the ball hits the ground.

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That's my interpretation. So what did you tell the kid?

We have discussed this before. From what I can remember it would only count as two points because the shot ended when it hit the floor. Two points would be awarded for a live ball entering the basket (assuming the clock had not expired).

The 3-point try ended when it became apparant that the attempt will not go in. IOW, when it became lower than ring level. However, a live ball went legally through through the basket - count 2 points.

Heh - I stammered through some mumbling, and then admitted I wasn't sure - I train the officials for our intramural program, and have been a basketball official for almost 5 years. I told him i'd post it in a forum where I can generally get honest correct answers (with little to no heckling - :) ) - and then did so. Thanks!

NO, IT WOULD NOT BE A THREE!

Even the rule you sited says "thrown, passed or shot." It does not say bounced. A try ends when it touches the floor. If it then vbounces into the basket, it would count as 2 points.

4-40-4
The try ends when the throw is successful, when it is certain the throw is unsuccessful, when the thrown ball touches the floor or when the ball becomes dead.

[Edited by BktBallRef on May 10th, 2005 at 11:40 PM]

BktBallRef nails another one! :) No three, count two points.

Heh - ok - reverse the original ruling :) - Thanks guys!

it's a duece

3 point shot
 

Could the attempt be goal tended by the defense "after" it hits the floor?

Re: 3 point shot
 

That's an interesting one... I wondered about the same thing....

At first glance, no.
 

GT only applies to a shot in flight. It would not apply to this if you look at the definition.

Rule 4-22

Peace

Re: Re: 3 point shot
 

GT only applies to a try. This isn't a try. Period.

Re: 3 point shot
 

Nope.

BI would, however, still apply.

Goal Tend
 

Could the attempt be goal tended by the defense "after" it hits the floor?

So the answer is yes, it may be goal tended. Basket Interference may be called if ball is in the cylinder or on the rim just like any pass or shot attempt.

Re: Goal Tend
 

That is really not true. Goaltending is different from basket interference to begin with.

Goaltending deals with three things.

1. Ball having a chance to go in.
2. Ball completely above the cylinder
3. Ball on its downward flight.

You cannot have goaltending on plays that are not a shot.

Now you could have basket interference if all the situations take place as listed under 4-6. Most of these involve either touching the net or cylinder while the ball is in the imaginary cylinder. Of course there are a couple of other situations, but goaltending and basket interference is not the same thing.

Peace

Rut,

Isn't that what I said? Goal tending could not be called but Basket Interference could? Why are you saying this is wrong? BTW, the net may be touched while the ball is in the cylinder, but not while it is touching the rim.

I took your comment, "The ball may be goal tended" as wrong. The ball can never be goal tended, because goaltending would not apply. You can only goal tend a shot; this example is not a shot. That is really what I meant by you were wrong on this particular issue.

Your last comment is not true either. The cylinder is the rim for starters. :D Look at Rule 4-6-1. A player cannot touch the ball or any part of the basket (including the net) while the ball is on or within either basket.

It might sound like semantics, but when you say someone can goal tend, that is just not a true statement.

Peace

I happily stand corrected that the basket would count as a two. But is my game clock interpretation correct?

The try is done once it hits the floor, so even if the clock expires after the bounce, the goal does NOT count (it is dead when the clock runs out).

Ah, it all makes sense. Thanks guys. I was dead wrong and glad I learned the correct interpretation.

You just had three posters tell you that the answer was no, yet you still think the answer is yes? :confused:

A try cannot be goaltended if it no longer has a chance to go in the basket. Since a try ends when it hits the floor, it's no longer possible to go in the basket or to have GT.

Bear with me. Yes, it still might have a chance to go in the basket. Here's the sitch: A1 bounces the ball toward the basket, maybe on a hard bounce pass that nobody catches. It bounces high, kisses the glass and is rolling on the rim. B1 jumps up and pulls the ball off the rim. Would you let B1 yank the ball off the rim because it wasn't a try, or would you call BI?

Here's a second sitch: same deal, high bounce, going toward the rim coming down. B1 taps it out of the air on the way down toward the basket. Goaltend?

I'd say yes to the BI but no the goaltend.

For your second sitch I say no because it's not a try or tap.

Yes, it has a chance to go in but it is NOT A TRY. Therefore, it cannot be GT.

BI is not GT and GT is not BI.

That's more or less my point, that in that situation you could call one but not the other.

While what he said was stated poorly, it was technically correct. A player may tend the goal (legally) in this case. They may not be called for goaltending, however.

His last comment is true. The net or rim may be legally contacted while the ball is in the cylinder but not on the rim. The rim is NOT the same as the cylinder.