I know Verne harris but I don't know the other two. One has grey hair and was a little taller. He always seems to be relaxed. The other guy was jumping around a little too much for my taste and was blowing other officials lines when he didn't need to and they didn't ask for help. He did this on at least two occasions.

When isolated the no-call on May was good. However there was a PC shortly after this with less or the same contact. The main difference was the Illinois player was shooting the ball and the contact occured. May took the time to lower his head and shoulder prior to going up for the shot. I think those two plays are too close together to have a whistle on one and not the other. I would have to see a replay so I can check it out again if the kid was sitting down prior to the contact. I'm not sure but I believe the C was on the same side as the camera so he saw what we saw.

Correct. I think IREFU2 is probably thinking of the 4th foul.

Yes, my fault the 4th one! Still trying to find the hour I lost at 2 a.m. on Sunday!

How about the non-call in the first half when the NC player (Noel?) got hit in the eye and the ball came loose? I know NC recovered and it had little bearing on the game, but smacking someone in the face is hardly incidental contact. I was surprised this wasn't called, since the player still had the ball. Usually you see this type of thing missed after the player gets rid of the ball.

I guess they figured the Illinois player hit the ball.

Either that or the face is part of ball.:)

Are you serious? It was incidental contact that occured on a rebound/loose ball. I don't think I would call it a smack either. This happens quite often without a whistle. And quite often there shouldn't be a whistle like last night.

This is the way I approach, too. The players always decide the game unless an official/crew makes an incorrect ruling or simply makes an egregious error in judgement.

Let me add that I don't see that happening very much. In fact, I'm not sure anyone can ever point to ONE CALL from an entire game, to say that it was the biggest factor in the outcome. Let's get real. More important than missed baskets, turnovers, poor defense, etc.?

Like some say, don't get into a position where one call can matter, then you need not worry about it.

I think he is serious, and I question whether you can be serious. A smack to the face/ eyes is not incidental contact. I think the referees just missed it/ didn't see it. Also, I don't think it caused him to lose the ball. In my view he was passing it back out to the point and after he released it he got smacked. I believe this is why the officials missed it.

When it comes to contact with the face, most of the time it is not incidental. I don't think Brown did it intentionally and was trying to make a play for the steal he just happened to miss the ball entirely and whacked Noel across the grill.

We have an official in our chapter who is a former NBA official. He once told me that if a player grabs his face or eyes, 99% of the time he got fouled, because, although players will fake some injuries, they never fake getting poked in the eye or smacked across the nose.

Don't confuse the terms incidental with accidental. It was an accident to hit him across the face which still equals a foul if the officials see it. It was definately not incidental contact. I would hope that if you did see that in your game you would call it.

It also tells me that the officials missed how it happened b/c they stopped the game immediately when they realized he was hurt to check on him.

I disagree. Although the foul was in the post, there was at least one other player from his team in the area, including a player that you could have pinned the foul on.

I disagree with you here. I specifically watched him the whole time when he returned with four fouls. As the play developed and he was pushing and shoving all over the lane, I thought what is he doing, he's going to pick up his fifth on a inconsequential (sp?) play away from the ball. He has to play smarter than that. As soon as I finished that thought, he gave one more shove and tweet... c-ya. He just didn't play smart and he did committ a foul. He was clearly the one who committed the foul.

Wasn't the 5th foul the one he got for the forearm shiver he gave May in the post? If so, the replay showed clearly there was nobody else around.

The fourth fouth - the second of two quick back-to-back ones early in the half - when they caught him hacking a guy driving to the hoop - on THAT one, I thought there was another defender in the lane they could have called a block on before Augustine reached in.

Anyway, last night should hold up as a good example for those who preach the "keep the good players in the game" philosophy. The three officials working the biggest game of the year didn't think twice about keeping the Big Ten Tournament MVP on the bench 90% of the time.


[Edited by canuckrefguy on Apr 5th, 2005 at 12:22 PM]

You're confusing the 4th foul with the 5th. There was absolutely no one but Augustine and Williams in the lane when Augustine committed his 5th.

That guy was the MVP at the Big Ten Tourney? Wow!

That's what I was thinking.......
 

When they flashed the graphic up on the screen that read:

Points: 0
Fouls: 4

:D

Just because the officials stopped play does not indicate a missed call.
Someone getting smacked in the face is contact, right? Contact occurs all the time without a whistle, right? IMO this contact in this game wasn't something to call. I would like to see it again and maybe I would change my mind but from what I remember it was just one of those plays where someone (accidentally :D) gets hit in the face. Unless I see the play again, I'm serious. :)