My thoughts are that the game was great! But, there were a couple of illegal screens toward the end of the game. But, I am on the couch and they are in the game!

I thought that May got away with a PC early. I also thought that May got away with at least one travel. On the one travel, with which my friends and I watched in slo-mo on TiVo, it appears that he travelled before he was fouled. Also, the guy that fouled out (name?) well, on his 4th you could have given the foul to either one of two guys. Since I felt that one of his earlier fouls was weak, I'd had given the 4th foul to the other guy.

What did you think of the screens that Illinois was setting?

Screens
 

I noticed those illegal screens as well. At least 3 on the last 3 or 4 possessions. I was rooting for those shots not to go in for the sake of the officials. You certainly don't want to nickel dime down the stretch, but at least 2 of them were bad. #50 both times.

I agree, Maye got away with a big travel in the second half. But it did look like he got bumped a little. That PC was kind of close though, look like more of a flop from the defender.

Near the end, most of them were illegal!

Maybe this is a new thread, but y'all bring up a great point. My guess is Illinois was setting those screens all game, and weren't called. So, I'm surmising you don't want to call them at the end of the game either. And if you call them early, you'll hear "Let them play...ticky-tack foul...the referees are deciding the game" and all that crap. How do you handle that? I've always been of the philosophy, if you call it early, then it isn't a surprise when you call it late. Of course, I've never refereed a national championship game either.

Good point, but what about the ticky-tack fouls on Illinois center that caused him to foul out. The last foul he got actually was on the guy to the left of him.

When coaches or fans make those statements it makes my skin crawl. Here's the deal; if the players don't do it, we won't call it.....k?.....deal? The players are making a decision when they commit the act that causes us to hit the whistle. I really don't understand how that is the referees deciding the game.

Actually, there was 3 guys around him and any one of them could had been tagged but Augustine seemed to have gotten his hack in there. I know because B. Packer said he didn't move his feet.

I thought the no-call by Cahill in the 1st half on the potential PC foul by May was great. Defender obviously starting diving before any contact. Get up!


My favorite Packer quote from the night: "They haven't called moving screens yet, so they may as well keep setting them."

Inadvertently he made it sound like he knew the rule, but it was obvious that he didn't know moving screens are legal, as long as there is no contact.

I thought the game was very well called and controlled the whole way through. I thought Cahill and Corbett showed great respect and restraint towards Illinois's coache Bruce Webber.

He kept coming onto the floor constantly. Yes, most of the time he was coaching his players, but there were a couple of times he was making a point to come on the floor when Cahill or Corbett were right in front of him.

The 5th foul on the Illinois center was a foul. Why he was in there at that point in the game was beyond me. That player was in the wrong place at the wrong time most of the night.

Just my opinion from watching the game.

I agree. I thought they were consistent throughout and gave Weber plenty of room.

The 5th on Augustine was a good call. And I have to agree with Packer, he had no business in the game when he picked up his 3rd and 4th. May wasn't even in the game. But those fouls were consistent with the way the entire game was called.

I found the body language of the officials confident, yet relaxed, and routine, yet attentive.
mick

Wrong, the last foul was in the post and nobody else was close.

I know Verne harris but I don't know the other two. One has grey hair and was a little taller. He always seems to be relaxed. The other guy was jumping around a little too much for my taste and was blowing other officials lines when he didn't need to and they didn't ask for help. He did this on at least two occasions.

When isolated the no-call on May was good. However there was a PC shortly after this with less or the same contact. The main difference was the Illinois player was shooting the ball and the contact occured. May took the time to lower his head and shoulder prior to going up for the shot. I think those two plays are too close together to have a whistle on one and not the other. I would have to see a replay so I can check it out again if the kid was sitting down prior to the contact. I'm not sure but I believe the C was on the same side as the camera so he saw what we saw.

Correct. I think IREFU2 is probably thinking of the 4th foul.

Yes, my fault the 4th one! Still trying to find the hour I lost at 2 a.m. on Sunday!

How about the non-call in the first half when the NC player (Noel?) got hit in the eye and the ball came loose? I know NC recovered and it had little bearing on the game, but smacking someone in the face is hardly incidental contact. I was surprised this wasn't called, since the player still had the ball. Usually you see this type of thing missed after the player gets rid of the ball.

I guess they figured the Illinois player hit the ball.

Either that or the face is part of ball.:)

Are you serious? It was incidental contact that occured on a rebound/loose ball. I don't think I would call it a smack either. This happens quite often without a whistle. And quite often there shouldn't be a whistle like last night.

This is the way I approach, too. The players always decide the game unless an official/crew makes an incorrect ruling or simply makes an egregious error in judgement.

Let me add that I don't see that happening very much. In fact, I'm not sure anyone can ever point to ONE CALL from an entire game, to say that it was the biggest factor in the outcome. Let's get real. More important than missed baskets, turnovers, poor defense, etc.?

Like some say, don't get into a position where one call can matter, then you need not worry about it.

I think he is serious, and I question whether you can be serious. A smack to the face/ eyes is not incidental contact. I think the referees just missed it/ didn't see it. Also, I don't think it caused him to lose the ball. In my view he was passing it back out to the point and after he released it he got smacked. I believe this is why the officials missed it.

When it comes to contact with the face, most of the time it is not incidental. I don't think Brown did it intentionally and was trying to make a play for the steal he just happened to miss the ball entirely and whacked Noel across the grill.

We have an official in our chapter who is a former NBA official. He once told me that if a player grabs his face or eyes, 99% of the time he got fouled, because, although players will fake some injuries, they never fake getting poked in the eye or smacked across the nose.

Don't confuse the terms incidental with accidental. It was an accident to hit him across the face which still equals a foul if the officials see it. It was definately not incidental contact. I would hope that if you did see that in your game you would call it.

It also tells me that the officials missed how it happened b/c they stopped the game immediately when they realized he was hurt to check on him.

I disagree. Although the foul was in the post, there was at least one other player from his team in the area, including a player that you could have pinned the foul on.

I disagree with you here. I specifically watched him the whole time when he returned with four fouls. As the play developed and he was pushing and shoving all over the lane, I thought what is he doing, he's going to pick up his fifth on a inconsequential (sp?) play away from the ball. He has to play smarter than that. As soon as I finished that thought, he gave one more shove and tweet... c-ya. He just didn't play smart and he did committ a foul. He was clearly the one who committed the foul.

Wasn't the 5th foul the one he got for the forearm shiver he gave May in the post? If so, the replay showed clearly there was nobody else around.

The fourth fouth - the second of two quick back-to-back ones early in the half - when they caught him hacking a guy driving to the hoop - on THAT one, I thought there was another defender in the lane they could have called a block on before Augustine reached in.

Anyway, last night should hold up as a good example for those who preach the "keep the good players in the game" philosophy. The three officials working the biggest game of the year didn't think twice about keeping the Big Ten Tournament MVP on the bench 90% of the time.


[Edited by canuckrefguy on Apr 5th, 2005 at 12:22 PM]

You're confusing the 4th foul with the 5th. There was absolutely no one but Augustine and Williams in the lane when Augustine committed his 5th.

That guy was the MVP at the Big Ten Tourney? Wow!

That's what I was thinking.......
 

When they flashed the graphic up on the screen that read:

Points: 0
Fouls: 4

:D

Just because the officials stopped play does not indicate a missed call.
Someone getting smacked in the face is contact, right? Contact occurs all the time without a whistle, right? IMO this contact in this game wasn't something to call. I would like to see it again and maybe I would change my mind but from what I remember it was just one of those plays where someone (accidentally :D) gets hit in the face. Unless I see the play again, I'm serious. :)

I don't think the officials saw the contact. Many times, when a player is hit in the eye, you don't realize it until you see the player grab his face. I'm not calling a foul based on a player grabbing his face.

<center><img src=http://www.marchingraiders.com/uncbigten.jpg></center>

Cool graphic.


I'm wondering if the face was moving toward the defender.
mick

The Heels average 83 points against the Big Ten.

Evidently, there was no defender. ;)

mick, check out http://tarheelblue.collegesports.com/.

Pretty cool website stuff going on. :o

Shoot! They're just doing what they do!
That's the Research Triangle for cryin' out loud!
I'm glad they're pumped they oughta be.

By the way, did Roy cry, and is he, in fact, on a first tee?

mick

I must ask,

1. What is a Tar Heel?
(A heel of a person who stepped in tar?)

2. What is an Illini?
(Is this just a person from Illinois?)

Maybe with his family after the game. He got kind of teary eyed, talking about his high school coach. He and Coach Smith had a huge affect on Roy's life, as his parents were divorced when he was small. When KU lost to UNC in the semis in '93, Roy sat with his HS coach while watching Carolina beat Michigan in the finals. His coach said, "Someday, I'll be sitting here, watching you win one of these." And of course his coach was there Monday night.

And no, no golf. He was in the air at 8am this morning, on the recruiting trail. A co-worker of mine's husband is a pilot and flies him around quite a bit. He was in Syracuse and St. Louis. In fact, he picked him up in Kansas and brought him to Chapel Hill, the day he came home two years ago.

Here's more than you wanted to know!
 

In 1629, King Charles I of England "erected into a province," all the land from Albemarle Sound on the north to the St. John's River on the south, which he directed should be called Carolina. The word Carolina is from the word Carolus, the Latin form of Charles.

When Carolina was divided in 1710, the southern part was called South Carolina and the northern, or older settlement, North Carolina. From this came the nickname the "Old North State." Historians have recorded that the principal products during the early history of North Carolina were "tar, pitch, and turpentine." It was during one of the fiercest battles of the War Between the States, so the story goes, that the column supporting the North Carolina troops was driven from the field. After the battle the North Carolinians, who had successfully fought it out alone, were greeted from the passing derelict regiment with the question: "Any more tar down in the Old North State, boys?" Quick as a flash came the answer: "No, not a bit, old Jeff's bought it all up." "Is that so; what is he going to do with it?" was asked. "He's going to put on you-un's heels to make you stick better in the next fight." Creecy relates that General Lee, upon hearing of the incident, said: "God bless the Tar Heel boys," and from that they took the name

The Illini are Indian tribes who first arrived in what is now known as Illinois in the 1500's. The state took it's name from the tribe.

Re: Here's more than you wanted to know!
 

Good stuff, Tony!
Thanks!