Path/LGP/Under the basket

[Back In The Saddle]

I'm watching a video from a D-1 official and supervisor (probably assigns a D-2 league). He makes the assertion that a defender cannot have LGP if he is under the basket. The rule on guarding says: "Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent.... (4-23-1)"

Assuming that the word path means the line from an offensive opponent's current location to his/her intended destination, then it makes sense that you cannot be in the path of an opponent driving to the basket if you are under the basket. Therefore you cannot have LGP (or have failed to maintain it) if you are under the basket hoping to take a charge.

What do you all think about this?

[BktBallRef]

I think a D1 official has no business smoking crack.

Let's ignore the LGP issue. Is the player entitled to a space on the floor? Did he attain the space legally? If so, it's a foul, without regard to LGP.

[rockyroad]

Uhmmm...this one's gone round and round a bunch of times. It basically comes down to one thing: if this person is an NCAA Women's official and assignor, then they are giving you the correct interp. for NCAA Women's games...if they are not, then the interp. is not correct.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
I'm watching a video from a D-1 official and supervisor (probably assigns a D-2 league). He makes the assertion that a defender cannot have LGP if he is under the basket. The rule on guarding says: "Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent.... (4-23-1)"

Assuming that the word path means the line from an offensive opponent's current location to his/her intended destination, then it makes sense that you cannot be in the path of an opponent driving to the basket if you are under the basket. Therefore you cannot have LGP (or have failed to maintain it) if you are under the basket hoping to take a charge.

What do you all think about this?

For NFHS, he is wrong. See case 10.6.1 Situation D.

Z

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by zebraman

For NFHS, he is wrong. See case 10.6.1 Situation D.

Z

Ahhh, very enlightening Thank you.

[proref27]

This will be a non issue when they bring in the restricted area to NCAA next year along with extending the 3pt line. It's only 2 ft...half the size of the NBA. I wonder what the rule will be about where the play has to originate?? No lower defensive box.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by proref27
This will be a non issue when they bring in the restricted area to NCAA next year along with extending the 3pt line. It's only 2 ft...half the size of the NBA. I wonder what the rule will be about where the play has to originate?? No lower defensive box.

I get the feeling that you're pretty jazzed about NBA rules and mechanics

[Junker]

This was discussed by the D1 guys at the camp I attended last weekend. Their take on this was that a defensive player should not be able to draw a player control foul underneath the basket. The reasoning goes along with advantage/disadvantage in a way. If the defensive player is trying to stop the offensive player from scoring, how can they do this directly under the basket? The suggestion was to either call the block, or no call the play and tell the player to get out from under the basket if they want to draw the PC foul. I know this is not correct under NFHS rules, but it makes alot of sense I thought.

[proref27]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle

I get the feeling that you're pretty jazzed about NBA rules and mechanics

I guess so. I can't help it

I heard the changes were a done deal pretty much. I think an RA makes it easier to call and a little more clear cut. If the secondary defender is in the RA, than all you have to do is point at the line and there is not much to argue.

[Camron Rust]

Being under the basket IS in the shooter's path...otherwise there would be no contact. The defense of it is forcing the shooter to take a slightly more difficult shot....stop for a short jumper instead of a layup/dunk. The shooter, being allow to run over the defender, has obtained an advantage.

So many people do not understand the NBA semi-circle anyway. It doesn't say you can't draw a charge inside the cirle. It says a help defender can't. The primary defender still can draw a charge. Also, it doesn't apply on drives from the corners. Under the basket is a great defensive position to defend a reverse layup.

[proref27]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
Being under the basket IS in the shooter's path...otherwise there would be no contact. The defense of it is forcing the shooter to take a slightly more difficult shot....stop for a short jumper instead of a layup/dunk. The shooter, being allow to run over the defender, has obtained an advantage.

So many people do not understand the NBA semi-circle anyway. It doesn't say you can't draw a charge inside the cirle. It says a help defender can't. The primary defender still can draw a charge. Also, it doesn't apply on drives from the corners. Under the basket is a great defensive position to defend a reverse layup.

It has nothing to do with drives the corners, but it does not apply when a player drives behind the backboard

1. It applies to "secondary defenders" 2. The drive has to originate outside of the LDB (Lower Defensive Box)

An offensive player can still be charged with a offensive foul on a secondary defender in instances such as pushing off with the off arm etc..

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by proref27

It has nothing to do with drives the corners, but it does not apply when a player drives behind the backboard

1. It applies to "secondary defenders" 2. The drive has to originate outside of the LDB (Lower Defensive Box)

An offensive player can still be charged with a offensive foul on a secondary defender in instances such as pushing off with the off arm etc..

Uh, that's what I said. Drive from the corner implies driving baseline or behind backboard...all the same. Help defender = secondary defender. Since we're talking block/charge and LGP, push offs with an off are are not relevant to the discussion. Everyone knows that non-charge offensive types of fouls can be called anywhere on the court without regard to LGP.

For such a noob here, you're sure coming in here being pretty irritating.

[lukealex]

Originally posted by proref27
2. The drive has to originate outside of the LDB (Lower Defensive Box)

Could you describe the lower defensive box?

[proref27]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

Uh, that's what I said. Drive from the corner implies driving baseline or behind backboard...all the same. Help defender = secondary defender. Since we're talking block/charge and LGP, push offs with an off are are not relevant to the discussion. Everyone knows that non-charge offensive types of fouls can be called anywhere on the court without regard to LGP.

For such a noob here, you're sure coming in here being pretty irritating.

Uhh, that's not exactly what you said. You said drives form the corners...I new what you meant I was just trying to make it clear for everyone. Others might might interpet drives from the corners literally. Also you made no mention of the LDB which is why I brought it up. I was basically agreeing with you because many people don't understand the RA.

Geez, don't get your panties in a bunch. I wasn't attacking you or anything.

[proref27]

Originally posted by lukealex

Could you describe the lower defensive box?

The LDB is the the small hash marks just under the bottom tip of the circle on each side of the lane. It's somewhat of an imaginary box inside the lane that starts at these hash marks.