Most of us were not there to know what Coach Wooden was or what he was not. John Wooden also coached in a different time and circumstances. Not sure today he would have the same success if for no other reason he would have to play more than west coast teams to win his national championships. I have heard that Coach Wooden was not this "angel" many of us would like to think he was as a coach. Then again this is all opinion. Adolph Rupp was successful too in that era. Not sure how much of an "angel" he was either.

Peace

Congratulations. You have managed to say absolutely nothing, and only took 106 words to do it. :rolleyes:

I doubt that John Wooden would agree with you.
He won 10 NCAA National Championships in a 12 year period without screaming and acting like a jerk.

[/B][/QUOTE]If you ever get a chance to talk to one of the older or retired PAC10 refs, Nevada, ask them about Wooden. He had a real reputation as a moaner and whiner when it came to officials. He certainly was no angel.

Of course he wasn't a John Chaney either.

Wooden is only today seen as a "class act" because the media likes to fantasize about things that happen over 30 years ago. There was no ESPN, no 24 hour news channels and no wall to wall tournament coverage back when Wooden was a coach. If that was the case where the media had the same investigative drive then as they do today, then the NCAA would have had to investigate the UCLA program and probably would have been suspended the school for serious NCAA violations. Just because a guy sits down in old films does not make him a class act. Wooden also had many conflicts with players and his administration when he was winning. When someone wins we seem to forget the many negatives that went along with their personality especially before the media was a constant in the sporting world. Coach K has cursed out a few officials and players in his day, but we seemed to not show that side of his program because he is nice to the media. Bobby Knight does the same thing, but he could give a damn what the media or anyone for that matter thinks of him. Not sure what else there is to understand.

Peace

Don't forget Coach Knight's graduation rate are excellent also. John Salley on TBDSSP said sometimes you need to have a coach get in your face to motivate you.

Bobby Knight's game antics are no role model for youth coaches but he does do the job he's been hired to do.

Mike Wilbon gave what I consider to be a perfect description of Bob Knight. On PTI yesterday, Wilbon said that Knight is a "great coach and a small, angry, vindictive man". Truer words were never spoken.

Would you send your child to spend four years with a small, angry, vindictive man? Lots of parents do it; but I wouldn't.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Would you send your child to spend four years with a small, angry, vindictive man? Lots of parents do it; but I wouldn't.

Me neither.

Z

I think it depends on the make-up and talent of your child. First of all, it isn't Coach Knight's job to give someone's child values. It is the parent's job. Knight said (yesterday) that today's players do not have the fundamentals that they used to. Add to that the lower moral standards. Top all of that off with an education (you can go to school to become an expert on parenting) system that has taken the place of "the village raising a man" or whatever and you get these sensitivities. He wants his players to do what they are supposed to within his system. when he has had players that are good enough he loosens the reigns (Isaiah and Calbert Cheaney) but when he doesn't he uses his system. AND, they graduate which is the best most college players could hope to ever do.

For years I coached both my daughters on the same volleyball team. National play from age 13 through their senior years and both girls scored All-State, 4A State Championship, MVP's and college scholarships. We played hard and tough and if any parent or lady thought practice was too hard or demanding, rec leagues were always an option.

There is a huge difference between player dedication, player/team goals, the desire to achieve success and the willingness to put forth your best effort every time you step onto a court to practice or play in order to achieve those goals and that of abusing a player.

Once you understand the difference between abusive behavior and that of coaching and parenting, then and only then should you be allowed to be responsible for either having children, or in charge of seven or more children of other parents.

There is also a difference when everyone has the same goals and the kids know you love them and their parents know you are concerned for their kids. All that said, tough love and verbal abuse are 2 different animals.

He certainly has some positive qualities, but the extreme negatives that Coach Knight and Coach Chaney have shown would make me never want my kid to "learn" from him. Wilbon is correct, they are both angry, bitter men.

Z

Well said Mike.

If I were a big time D1 coach making high 6 figures based soley on the ability of a bunch of 18 thru 22 year olds to perform consistently under pressure then I might yell at them too. But for AAU & even HS ranks...nah. Can you imagine the leader of the HS jazz band screaming at his rhythm section during a concert because he didn't like the way they kept time?

Demanding is 1 thing. Abusive is something completely different.

Actually I can Dan_ref!

We lived a couple of blocks from the HS parking lot years ago and early one Saturday morning the freakin' band woke me up around 7am while practicing on the parking lot (They practiced their football field formations there and were marching all around).

It was a beautiful morning anyway, but I was a *little under the weather* from the night before. So I decided to get up to make some coffee and check in on SportsCenter to see what the scores were.

After about 15 minutes of this band director shouting through his megaphone and directing these keds he let's out with this, "ALRIGHT KNOCK IT OFF!!! IF YOU DON'T QUIT GOOFING OFF WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO THE 'BUFFALO SHUFFLE'!!!

I about spit my coffe out! "What's that?!?! No Buffalo Shuffle?!?!" :D

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckElias
[B]Mike Wilbon gave what I consider to be a perfect description of Bob Knight. On PTI yesterday, Wilbon said that Knight is a "great coach and a small, angry, vindictive man". Truer words were never spoken.

Did Wilbon do this as he perused his Billy Packer School of Commentary Completion Certificate? Does Wilbon know that Coach Knight is 6'5"? Now I am sure he used the adjective "small" in a figurative manner however, it makes him look ridiculous and invalid.
Yes I am a Bobby Knight "fan" and have been all my life. I do realize that he has done some things that he should not be proud of. He has admitted that most of things were in a moment of overreaction.
What most of you have not seen is that he took someone like ME aside at every one of his summer camps and gave them a lesson on how to study and how to be a gentleman!!
But you try to help one old lady find a seat during a game or help one reporter find his camera in Puerto Rico . . .
Anyway, sorry for the rant. I had a lot more but that is not what this thread is about. sorry.
AAR

Cruel & inhuman punishment if you ask me. We need a government investigation! It's people like this that give a bad name to HS music programs all over the country!

:D