blarge

Bart Tyson · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 01:00pm

TV, last night, can't remember who the were the teams. Lead calls a block, Center calls a PC. play by play guys, went bananas when they called a double foul and no basket. They said the usual, "they can't take the basket away, they can't call a double foul, I never seen that before, bad call, its clearly a block, defense was still moving, they got that wrong, they need to go to the other official and ask him". In seeing the replay, I think it could have gone either way. It was as close as I think it could be. My olny thoughts, it started in the middle of the paint and ended on the center side, going to the hoop. In the Women's game, the center takes it. I don't know about the men's side. The play by play guys said they went to the AP. I don't know for sure, because they gave it to the team that had the possession at the spot on the baseline.

bigzilla · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 01:35pm

I believe that was Colo. v OSU. Took basket away from Colo, and then gave them the ball back. Ended up being a 2 point win for OSU.

canuckrefguy · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 01:40pm

Secondary defender, should be lead's call....

Bart Tyson · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 01:57pm

Quote:

Originally posted by canuckrefguy
Secondary defender, should be lead's call....

Good point, I thought the secondary defender goes to lead IF the Center has a no call or in a double whistle and no signal was given, the Center may give it up to the lead. Are you saying it always goes to lead(in this situation)? And are you talking from the Men's side or the Women's side?

Adam · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 02:14pm

I thought the basket would count on this since a double foul is not considered a PC foul.

Bart Tyson · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 02:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
I thought the basket would count on this since a double foul is not considered a PC foul.

I believe the ncaa has ruled no basket in this situation. My question is, do you go to the AP or, because it's a double foul, you give it back to the Offense?

canuckrefguy · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 02:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Bart Tyson

Quote:

Originally posted by canuckrefguy
Secondary defender, should be lead's call....

Good point, I thought the secondary defender goes to lead IF the Center has a no call or in a double whistle and no signal was given, the Center may give it up to the lead. Are you saying it always goes to lead(in this situation)? And are you talking from the Men's side or the Women's side?

I think the proper 3-person mechanic, Mens or Womens (sorry, don't have my CCA manuals handy) is for lead to pick up the secondary defender.

It's a play we see so often - dribbler beats his defender, secondary slides in to help. The rationale is that C (or sometimes T) may see the play from the beginning, but not the crucial point where defender establishes/does not establish LGP. This is especially true when the dribbler goes airborne, I think.

Still not sure about the difference between Men/Womens mechanics, though...

Regardless of the rule interpretation, the crucial thing here is who should have sucked their whistle?

As for the bucket - does the airborne shooter exception to the PC foul come into play here?

Adam · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 02:38pm

No such thing as an airborne shooter in NCAA men's. My understanding is that with all double fouls you go to the arrow. I know some have talked about a desire to go POI, but I think the arrow is the most equitable answer. After all, both guys committed the foul.

BktBallRef · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 02:39pm

There is no airborne shooter in Men's NCAA.

Bart Tyson · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 02:46pm

Now that I think about it more, I don't think it was a secondary defender. But, it still makes for interesting dicussion.

canuckrefguy · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 03:13pm

So if there's no airborne shooter, what happens when A1 drives, releases shot, collides with B1. Double whistle and a blarge....do we count the hoop, go double foul and AP?

BktBallRef · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 03:23pm

Quote:

Originally posted by canuckrefguy
So if there's no airborne shooter, what happens when A1 drives, releases shot, collides with B1. Double whistle and a blarge....do we count the hoop, go double foul and AP?

Count the basket, and go to the arrow.

Adam · #13 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 04:02pm

Quote:

Originally posted by canuckrefguy
So if there's no airborne shooter, what happens when A1 drives, releases shot, collides with B1. Double whistle and a blarge....do we count the hoop, go double foul and AP?

Yup. If the shot is released before contact, you count the basket even if the shooter is the guilty party. Once the shot is released, there is no longer player control nor team control. So, you could end up having a made basket and shooting free throws on the other end. (Happened to Iowa's Jeff Horner earlier this year.)

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #14 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 12, 2005, 10:17pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
There is no airborne shooter in Men's NCAA.

Tony:

You are correct that NCAA Men's does not have a player control foul by an airborne shooter per the NFHS and NCAA Women's rules, but the NCAA Men's rule per an airborne shooter being fouled by the defense is the same as the NFHS and NCAA Women's rule is concerned.

MTD, Sr.