Alabama vs. LSU women - reviewable call?

bigwes68 · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 05, 2005, 12:50am

Don't know if anyone saw the end of the LSU-Alabama women's game in the SEC Tournament today. If not...

LSU led, 60-57, with less than 15 seconds to play. Alabama brought the ball into the frontcourt, found the open shooter, and she knocked down what was apparently a 3-pointer with :5.1 left (tie game, 60-60). LSU drives the length of the floor, misses a potential game-winning layup, time expires. Overtime, right?

But wait...the officials went to the table to review the apparent 3-point shot. Replays showed (not very clearly, but apparently enough for the officials) that the shooter's foot was on the line. Call changed to a 2-point basket, so the score is now LSU 60, Alabama 59.

They end up putting the :5.1 back on the clock, 'Bama fouls quickly, LSU misses both free throws but 'Bama can't get a shot off.

Officials said after the game that two angles were inconclusive, but the third showed the foot on the line. From the replay I saw (later in the day), I didn't see irrefutable evidence to overturn the call, although it was borderline.

I watched the whole thing from press row, but I couldn't see the shooter's feet so I don't know for sure and they didn't show the replay in the arena. Just wondering: was this handled properly by NCAA rules/replay procedures?

BktBallRef · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 05, 2005, 01:05am

Wasn't it a game involving Alabama the last time something screwy like this happened?

ronny mulkey · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 05, 2005, 07:42am

Bigwes,

Glad you saw it, too. The views that we had on TV would not have resulted in a reverse call (if they had signaled a 3). Also, we couldn't tell what signal the officials gave at the time the ball went in. Did they signal a 2 or a 3?

Regardless, were the officials correct in replaying the 5.1 seconds? Why? Would they have replayed them if LSU had taken the ball down and scored after the disputed shot?

Interested in hearing from the college guys on this one.

Mulk

bigwes68 · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 05, 2005, 11:06am

One official signaled a 3, another signaled a 2.

TriggerMN · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 05, 2005, 11:33am

They put the time back on the clock???

Boy, I REALLY want to see a rule reference on that one.

Bart Tyson · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 05, 2005, 12:06pm

Well this is interesting. I didn't see the game. The play is reviewable to check the foot on the line and to check the time. However, something doesn't add up. A.) if the clock is correct and the game is over, then they go to the monitor and correct the score, this is ok at this point. Score is 60-59 and we go to overtime. B.) (I am going to side if the officials) If the officials went to the monitor and corrected the score and CORRECTED a timing mistake, then they did everything correct.

bigwes68 · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 05, 2005, 12:20pm

You go to overtime at 60-59? Bet Alabama would love to hear that now.

Of course, they probably would have had to throw LSU's coach out of the game because she would have gone berserk.

Bart Tyson · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 05, 2005, 12:28pm

Depends how you look at it. They start the OT with 1 point advantage. There are a lot of "what ifs" and at that level, most coaches, at least in the women's game understand.

bigwes68 · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 05, 2005, 02:18pm

Can someone give me a rules reference on that one?

ronny mulkey · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 05, 2005, 07:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Well this is interesting. I didn't see the game. The play is reviewable to check the foot on the line and to check the time. However, something doesn't add up. A.) if the clock is correct and the game is over, then they go to the monitor and correct the score, this is ok at this point. Score is 60-59 and we go to overtime. B.) (I am going to side if the officials) If the officials went to the monitor and corrected the score and CORRECTED a timing mistake, then they did everything correct.

Black,

Why O.T? There was no timing mistake. Clock stopped with 5.1 when the shot went through the net. LSU inbounded the ball and ran out the clock. Then, they went to the monitor. Verified the shot as a 2. Then went back to the endline and put the clock back to 5.1 and replayed.

Is that a women's rule? Why did they not go to the monitor at the 5.1 mark to begin with?

Where is Bob Jenkins when you need him?

Mulk

bob jenkins · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 05, 2005, 08:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ronny mulkey

Where is Bob Jenkins when you need him?

Mulk

Out of town.

I didn't see the play, but as described I'm confused. Is it possible that one official was calling for the review before / as LSU was throwing the ball in and the timer didn't see it and so started the clock (or the clock on the screen wasn't the official clock, but was an ESPN clock)? If that was the case, there wasn't really a "do over", rather, the first play didn't happen.

dsimp8 · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 05, 2005, 10:43pm

Bob ,LSU's coach asked for the review after her PG came over and told her that one of the official's did not signal a 3. Do all officials on the college level in a game have to signal or "mirror" the 3 pt basket? The timer had already put 5:00 on the clock and Pd 5. If I were Rick Moody,I would have kept my team on the court waiting for the OT period to begin and refusing to leave the court. Could they have protested? I guess it's obvious that I'm an Alabama fan also.

womens_hoops · #13 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 05, 2005, 10:45pm

I was watching the game, was about two inches from the screen trying to see the replay, but you just couldn't tell. I remain confused.

On TV, there was no indication that anyone on the crew called for review immediately when the ball went in. (In fact, it was only later, in the middle of the next game, that someone said that one official had called it a three and another had called it a two.)

Here are a couple newspaper articles describing it more:

http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/...ulady001.shtml

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/...503050324/1028

http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/...alais001.shtml

drothamel · #14 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 05, 2005, 10:56pm

I don't know if the video review thing falls under the "correctable errors" rule in the NCAA, but if it does, then they should have gone to the monitor before the first free throw. It seems that waiting that long isn't allowable, but then I don't know the NCAA rule. They did do the right thing by not playing the overtime. If they had waited until some point after the overtime started, then they would have had to continue.

bigwes68 · #15 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 06, 2005, 12:17am

The free throws were not shot until after the call was changed. The clock ran out, no official had signaled for a review, and everyone seemed in agreement it was headed to overtime.

Everyone in the place was flabbergasted when they changed the call, especially after Alabama coach Rick Moody had come out of looking at the replay monitor pumping his fist in celebration. The whole mess was really strange, I've never seen anything quite like it.

After the shot, LSU inbounded the ball quickly and tried to go the length of the floor. There was no dead-ball interval (except for the clock stopping after the made basket) to review the play before the time expired. Putting time back on the clock at that point seemed to be the only equitable thing to do.

However, after seeing several angles on the replay since last night, I haven't seen one yet that is conclusive enough to warrant overturning the call.

Edit: And just for the record, I'm not an Alabama fan (I'm a Tennessee fan, which is about as far from a 'Bama fan as you can get), but everyone in the place except for LSU fans (UT and Auburn fans included) were cheering for Alabama.

[Edited by bigwes68 on Mar 6th, 2005 at 12:20 AM]