OK, as I was saying...

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by dcswede
As you can see I never post, but now in 2 threads I still do not understand your beef here.

Chaney is a Hall-of-Fame coach who has had a career, both in terms of success and loyalty, that most can only envy. You seem to not be able to take choice C, "Frustrated Old Icon", and just move on.

There is a lot to discuss here (the reffing, the gooning, the screens, the punishments) but you start by throwing Molotovs at Chaney.

Dan, why are YOU so pissed?

Frustrated old icon would fall in my second category, senile old jerk, wouldn't it?

I'm not pissed. I'm entertained by the responses I'm getting. A lot of them have been very predictable IMO.

Thanks for posting!

[Rich]

Originally posted by PS2Man

Careful, he might not be man enough to answer your question. That might take intellectual thought to come up with an answer. Not sure that is something many here have.

And you would be at the top of the list.

[drothamel]

I think that "frustrated old icon" may be more to the point. I think that despite all the great things that Cheyney has done for Temple and college basketball in general, he may have hung on longer than is healthy for himself. I mean, coaches all over the country complain every day about calls that are or are not made, you don't see them choosing to deal with it in the way that he did. I think that is a sign of definite frustration and feeling a bit left behind. Temple basketball hasn't gotten much respect in the recent past. I do feel that as a hall-of-famer, he has earned the right to end his career the way he chooses, rather than being fired. I am just very sad that this is the way in which he chose to punctuate it.

We all can think of examples of people in all walks of life who have stayed in their station beyond their relevancy or effectiveness. If this is all that a great coach like Cheyney is able to offer the game of college basketball, then yes, it is time for him to go. Again, I just wish he would have realized it sooner, and this whole ugly thing could have been avoided.

[Junker]

I don't see how anyone can think that Chaney deserves to keep his job. Let's see, he threatened to kill another coach and sends in his "goon" to foul a team he thinks is playing dirty. Is this someone you would want representing your university? Is this the kind of sportsmanship we are all working to build? I think, since another player was injured, he should have been fired on the spot. Another aspect of the story I'd like to hear is what Temple players are thinking.

[PS2Man]

Originally posted by Junker
I don't see how anyone can think that Chaney deserves to keep his job. Let's see, he threatened to kill another coach and sends in his "goon" to foul a team he thinks is playing dirty. Is this someone you would want representing your university? Is this the kind of sportsmanship we are all working to build? I think, since another player was injured, he should have been fired on the spot. Another aspect of the story I'd like to hear is what Temple players are thinking.

He might not deserve his job back. No one deserves their job. Someone allows you to keep your job. That is what happens when you work for people. He still might keep his job, whether you like it or not. It is not any of our choice either way. We have a right to an opinion that is different from your opinion.

[gsf23]

Originally posted by rockyroad
I said this in the other thread, so may as well say it here also...while what Chaney did was absolutely wrong, and the officials should have figgered things out sooner, why is there no backlash against the "goon" himself? That kid went out there and broke another player's arm...did he get suspended or anything? Chaney got his punishment - and will probably get more- but what about the Gordon kid?

I don't think the NCAA can really do anything since nothing but common fouls were called against him.

[Adam]

Originally posted by PS2Man

He might not deserve his job back. No one deserves their job. Someone allows you to keep your job. That is what happens when you work for people. He still might keep his job, whether you like it or not. It is not any of our choice either way. We have a right to an opinion that is different from your opinion.

Good grief. A man sends a goon (the coach's word) into the game for the express purpose of committing hard fouls (sending a message), and this whole debate degenerates into a futile exercise in semantics.

[PS2Man]

Originally posted by Snaqwells

Good grief. A man sends a goon (the coach's word) into the game for the express purpose of committing hard fouls (sending a message), and this whole debate degenerates into a futile exercise in semantics.

I do not think it is semantics to have an opinion. It seems like there are certain people that only accept opinions that go along with their view. And those cannot fathom that someone else has a different view from them. I wonder what this place is supposed to be for.

[Adam]

Originally posted by PS2Man

I do not think it is semantics to have an opinion. It seems like there are certain people that only accept opinions that go along with their view. And those cannot fathom that someone else has a different view from them. I wonder what this place is supposed to be for.

No, having an opinion is not necessarily semantics. However, debating the meaning of "deserves" with regard to a job is a diversion in semantics. Some could say that debating whether we should use "thug," "bully," or some other word is semantics. I never said you can't have an opinion, and no on else did either.
If you offer opinions, however, it's generally beneficial to defend them with something more substantive than semantics.
We've argued that Chaney should be fired. The only defense has been that he's a HoF coach, or that noone "deserves" their job, or that using the word "thug" could be seen as racially divisive. There's no defense of the proposition that Chaney shouldn't be fired.
And don't sit there and tell me I "cannot fathom that someone else has a different view from" me. I have a lot of respect for those who have a different opinion than me; as long as they can tell me why. I don't have to agree with you to respect you or learn from you. I do have to understand you, though.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by PS2Man
[ It seems like there are certain people that only accept opinions that go along with their view. And those cannot fathom that someone else has a different view from them.

And, again, we would need to place you at the head of that list...

[PS2Man]

Originally posted by rockyroad


And, again, we would need to place you at the head of that list...

I do not see why. I have been ripped because I shared my opinion. I gave my opinion and left at that. I guess telling people what you think is a bad thing. I am sorry massa, I will ask for your permission the next time.

[RollTide]

I offer an analogy. Which of these has no place in baseball:

1) a pitcher throwing inside (even if it's at a batter but not high)
2) a pitcher throwing at a batter's head

Hopefully everyone says #2, because that is an attempt to injure your opponent and has absolutely no place in the game.

Analogy to this situation. Had Cheney simply sent in the 'goon' to 'use his fouls up' or to 'roughen up the St Joe's players a lil bit', no harm would've been done. But, to instruct his 'goon' to go in there and try to hurt someone crossed the line.

Cheney's long laundry list of instances overshadow his status as a HoF coach as far as I'm concerned. Being a HoF coach should not give him the power to 'go out on his own terms'. He chose these terms.

I hope the administration at Temple will stand up and show the world that they will not condone these actions, irregardless of whether they were made by a Hall of Fame coach.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by gsf23

I don't think the NCAA can really do anything since nothing but common fouls were called against him.

Not really expecting the NCAA to do anything, but the A-10 certainly could, and so could the University...

And as for PS2Man, you didn't just "offer your opinion", you told others they were wrong for using the word "thug"...and that's the exact behavior you are accusing others of.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by PS2Man

I do not think it is semantics to have an opinion. It seems like there are certain people that only accept opinions that go along with their view. And those cannot fathom that someone else has a different view from them. I wonder what this place is supposed to be for.

How ironic for you to post such a comment...seems to describe you perfectly.

[drothamel]

PS2 Quote: "I am sorry massa, I will ask for your permission the next time."

That type of response is uncalled for and highly inappropriate in my opinion. It is a blatant attempt to create a racial connotation in a conversation that previously had no such connotation. It is also an attemtpt to discredit the opinions of one person by destroying his credibility through painting him as something he is not (in this case a racist). Accepting one's opinion does not necessitate agreeing with that opinion. No one in this thread or the other has discounted your opinion, some may not agree with it, but everyone has been willing to listen to it. I find it intellecutually dishonest, and appalingly so, for you to disparage the intellectual acuity of everyone else and then come out with a response as ridiculous as the one quoted above. There is no reason to turn a spirited debate ugly. No one on this thread has attacked you personally, which is what you have just done.

On another note:

I think that Cheyney's status as a HofF is very relevant. This is a man who was given, by his peers, the highest honor that could possibly be bestowed upon him. This was done AFTER, and in full light of, his run in with Calipari, and his having slapped a player during a game. After all that, those whose opinions matter (for whatever it's worth) decided that he was worthy of such an honor. As such, I think that he deserves an amount of deference that would not be given to other coaches in the same position. He has not taken advantage of his status; he has not tried to weasel his way out of the situation. Heck, he even went beyond what the school and the conference have been willing to do thus far. As heinous as his actions may have been, I think that he has handled this in such a way that displays a degree of contrition and understanding that has been lacking from him previously. Also, I have not seen anything that suggests that he told the player to go out and deliberately injure anyone. Although I could be wrong. The St. Joe's player was injured, and as soon as that happened, it was Cheyney himself who offered to pay his medical expenses and suspend himself. These were two things that he had no obligation to do. I imagine that he is sufficiently embarassed and sorry for what he has done that he probably will not return next season. I don't see how firing him will make the situation any better. I also don't hear his peers calling for him to be fired, which should count for something.