I don't have a Fed book handy and the last one I had was probably '97 or so and wouldn't update changes.

Here's the bizarre scenario (that actually happened):

3.18 seconds left, Team A coming back from timout trailing by 3 for baseline throw in with ability to run the line. There is a legal pass along the baseline from A-1 to A-2 (still out of bounds), and then a pass from A-2 to A-3 about 7/8ths of the way down the court (well inside the 3 point line). A-3 receives pass cleanly, then makes a turn toward the basket when the horn goes off. There's no way it took 3+ seconds for the catch and turn, so it is clear the clock operator started the clock on the OOB throw along the baseline.

After the horn goes off, the officials realize the clock started prematurely and go to the table. Team A's coach is incensed and starts yelling like a madman (pretty much the same way he'd been doing the entire game). After a discussion, the officials decide to put 3.18 back on the clock and replay it. So here we go again, except that this time, there is no OOB pass. A direct pass down to the other side of the court is intercepted by Team B, who makes two passes, then throws the ball in the air. Something's missing here: NO HORN. Team A grabs the ball out of the air and shoots a 2 point shot that goes in. Still no horn.

Turns out the clock operator put 3:18 (as in minutes) instead of 3.18 SECONDS on the clock. After 10 minutes of discussion, the officials decide to replay it yet one more time. This time the horn goes off and Team A doesn't get a shot off. Team B wins by 3.

Now, other than killing the clock operator, tell me what you would have done at each instance in this situation.

What a mess!! IMO, they did right by putting time back on since there was a timing error. However, whenever they did this, they should have checked the clock to make sure the right time was placed on the clock, therefore there being 3 minutes and 18 seconds was somewhat their fault too.

NCAA AR:

"With four seconds left on the game clock, A1 is throwing-in the ball to A2. The timer incorrectly starts the game clock before the passed ball touches or is legally touched by an
inbounds player. The official recognizes the timer’s mistake and immediately blows his or her whistle while the passed ball is in flight. RULING: Since the timer has made a mistake,
the official, with definite knowledge, shall place the correct time on the game clock. Play shall be resumed with a throw-in by Team Afrom the original throw-in spot."

Why would team A get a second do-over?

Team B stole the ball correct? Team B had the ball when the timer's error was discovered? Was there a 10 second count after the steal?

Why was the ball put back in play with 3:18 instead of 0:03?

If it was obvious that the shot was made after 3 seconds elapsed, why didn't the officials whistle the end of the game before the shot?

Some of the clocks in our area have the : painted on and show 100ths of a second when the clock is stopped. So, if you look at the clock it will read 3:18 however there on only 3.18 seconds on the clock. Once it begins to run the clock goes back to 10ths of a second (3.1, 3.0, 2.9 etc.). When time is put back there is no way to tell of the clock operator put 3:18 or 3.18 on the clock. You have to hit a special .00 button on the controller before you try to set the clock. Very confusing.

WILL IT NEVER END??!!

This is not a do-over. The game clock is set to 3.18 seconds and Team A gets a designated throw-in nearest the spot to where A3 caught A2's endline throw-in pass.

MTD, Sr.

Now you've done it. You've gotten MTD, Sr.'s culotte in a twist.

LMAO

Couple of things:

They had to run the clock down from 1:00 several times (that was really annoying) to just under 4. The best they could do on the SECOND reset was 3.24. The first one went to 3.18 easily, but we now know it was 3:18, not 3.18.

Anyway, this was a Texas 5A (largest class) playoff game with a packed house and two officials. I think the officials lost control of the game earlier by letting Team A's coach get on them on every call and talk to them on every timeout. Team A's players were whiners as well. By the time this happened, virtually anything they did was going to be a problem due to their, in my view, lack of control. That's a lesson to us all: keep control of your game at all times.

I disagree with the interpretation of putting the ball at the designated spot nearest the point where the original play ended. If its done that way, there must be some time elapsed, but either way, this gives Team A way too much of an advantage, because when A-3 received the pass, he and only one other player were even in the front court. Almost no chance at a 3 point shot since he was well inside the arc. I doubt he would have gotten a shot off. A throw in gives them a perfect position. At most, there were about 1.75 seconds left. From what I remember about Fed rules, I don't think that justifies any sort of clock reset; game over.

If you do reset, you have to play it from the baseline, and the second time, the game should have been declared over. I know over 3 seconds elapsed for a pass catch, two passes, then a ball thrown into the air.

The game is being replayed as we speak on cable. I'll time it and get back here.

Unfortunatly as much as we know that time had elapsed, the throw in should occur at the point nearest to the interuption with 3.18 seconds on the clock unless definite info as to how much time ran off is available (then adjust accordingly). Everybody would agree to this had the ball only been passed to half court, but for some reason most think that since it went 7/8ths of the way down the court somehow it should be a redo.

According your play, A3 received an inbounds pass from A2. That means the clock was not supposed to start until the ball was touchded by A3. Team A did nothing wrong in this play. The only mistake made was that the game clock started too soon. The fact that the game clock started too soon does not negate Team A's throw-in play. Under both NFHS and NCAA rules. The clock must be reset to the time that the officials definitely knew was on the clock and this is 3.18 seconds. There are a few of us in this group that believe that the NFHS and NCAA should adopt the NBA/WNBA rule where 0.3 seconds would be reduced on the game clock for a play like this but the current rules do not allow us to do such a thing.

MTD, Sr.

The fact that the game clock started too soon does not negate Team A's throw-in play.
[/B][/QUOTE]Got a rules citation to back that up?

How many times is this now that we've argued this stoopid play?

Got a rules citation to back that up?

How many times is this now that we've argued this stoopid play? [/B][/QUOTE]



JR:

Quote me a rule that would negate Team A's throw-in play?

MTD, Sr.

Quote me a rule that would negate Team A's throw-in play?

[/B][/QUOTE]Naw, I think that I'll let BlindZebra play with ya again. I'm tired of this one.

Naw, I think that I'll let BlindZebra play with ya again. I'm tired of this one. [/B][/QUOTE]


JR:

Your tired because you know I am correct. Have a pleasant evening. I know you are getting cabin fever with no NHL up there in the Great White North.

MTD, Sr.

>>The clock must be reset to the time that the officials definitely knew was on the clock and this is 3.18 seconds.<<

There's no authority by any rule that I'm aware of for a reset. The rule allowing the official to correct the time requires "definite" knowledge; i.e., he knew what was on the clock and what should have been on the clock, albeit not to a precise degree.

When you start speaking of "definite knowledge" then its just as correct to allow the game to end as it did originally (with no more than 2 seconds unaccounted for), since the officials do not have definite knowledge 3.18 seconds did not elapse. If they did have such knowledge, then they know what time to reset the clock at and potentially allow a throw in, and it isn't 3.18, and not a redo.

At least I can see a throw in after the first screw up. Is there anyone that can justify a third redo?

Don't get yourself in this situation: unless you have definite knowledge, declare the game over and get off the court. You may have made a mistake, but you will certainly make a bigger mistake if you stay out there. The team that loses isn't going to like the outcome, and doing it five times isn't going to make them like it any better.

Naw, I think that I'll let BlindZebra play with ya again. I'm tired of this one. [/B][/QUOTE]

Leave me out of it.

How is this statement relative to your theory? You are saying, I suppose, that since Team A did nothing wrong you should not penalize them by making them throw this difficult pass again. BUT, what did Team B do wrong? Is giving Team A the ball in the frontcourt with no time elapsed not penalizing Team B?

In the original play there was 3.18 seconds left on the game clock and the clock was started too soon so that the game clock had it zero and the horn sounded when A3 caught A2's throw-in pass. Lets change the time on the game clock to 3:55 and when A3 catches A2's inbounds pass you notice that the clock already shows 3:52, you now that it should say 3:55. I hope that you wouldn't make Team A redo its throw-in after adding three seconds to the game clock.

MTD, Sr.

If this happens at 3:55, you can do whatever you want and nobody will ever remember this play. We are talking about a small amount of time at the end of a game, or at least a quarter. According to your theory, if there is .3 on the clock and this happens, now you will give them the ball in frontcourt with the same .3 on the clock? I wanna be there to watch the discussion when that happens.

Don't waste your time.

Logic and a lack of rule citation have no effect on MTD. If it's his opinion it's right even if he can't support it.;)

If you argue about it, he'll just call you inexperienced, question your ability to work a game, and give you his resume.:D

I watched the end of the game on replay. Interesting. I think part of the problem was created by the game being played on a neutral court, but with one teams scorer and timekeeper. The timekeeper was unfamiliar with the timing equipment being used. That could explain how the clock was not reset properly for the second go-round and how the clock could not be reset properly for the third go-round.