In ya'lls is biddy ball and elementary worse than HS.

[Squidward]

Chris, you wouldn't have escorted me out because I never got abusive (as I said in my post). I did utter the occasional loud "No way!" or "Oh, come on!" I had a mild contretemps with a college kid ref when they neglected to check the arrow and gave the ball to the wrong team, which scored. I was the loudest of several in pointing out the error. But all I did was point out the error.

Why so defensive, folks? I saw the error of my ways. Don't you believe there are bad refs at this level?

As for the block/charge, the refs call about six blocks a game. In fifteen games, I've seen maybe three charge calls. These refs insist that the defender's feet be perfectly still. And no flinching, even if the kid gets clobbered by a dribbler flying along with his head down.

[ThickSkin]

Originally posted by Squidward
Don't you believe there are bad refs at this level?

I believe there are bad refs at the elementary, jr, high school, and lower level college. These are the guys that are out there for the paycheck or to be seen. Not becuse they love the game or enjoy it.

[brandan89]

Originally posted by ThickSkin

I believe there are bad refs at the elementary, jr, high school, and lower level college. These are the guys that are out there for the paycheck or to be seen. Not becuse they love the game or enjoy it.

Even if they are bad, they are your brothers/ sisters, and you should be behind them 100% even if they screw a call.

[Adam]

Originally posted by Squidward

Why so defensive, folks? I saw the error of my ways. Don't you believe there are bad refs at this level?

For the most part, no. I don't believe there are "bad refs." I know there are "new refs." New refs often times have the same rules misconceptions as fans do. New refs are often out of position, and almost always lack the judgment of experienced officials. This doens't make them "bad refs." It simply makes them "new refs." The difference is more than semantics. The difference is what makes us defensive, since the vast majority of us were there at one time.
"Bad refs?" There may be a few, but they're so far in between that I don't use the term.

[Stat-Man]

I have to admit I used to be table crew for our CYO teams but stopped partly because adults thought their roles were far more important than the kids learning game fundamentals, teambuilding skills, and simply having fun.

The sad part is that it gets worse as they get older and many coaches are resigning because they don't want to or can't deal with the player and parent egos.

[ChrisSportsFan]

[QUOTE Squidward] Chris, you wouldn't have escorted me out because I never got abusive (as I said in my post). I did utter the occasional loud "No way!" or "Oh, come on!"

[ChrisSportsFan]There is no way I can say this without sounding egotistical so here it is: I officiated 40 varsity games, 2 small-time college games and about 50 lower level HS games in the past 3 months. I also love to work youth games and I have a goal/mechanic with every rec game that I want to work on. However, I do not take any crap from parents at these games. Most of the time they don't have much of a clue about the rules and they don't care that they are embarrassing their kids and spouse. Where IÂ’m headed with this is that when I and my fellow HS officials work a youth rec game, parents and coaches need to be more grateful that they have higher quality officials on their game. Do I still miss stuff on these games? Easy answer, YES! But if obnoxious parents want to complain every trip down the court, do you think varsity officials will continue working youth games? Easy answer, NO! Would I have had you escorted out? IÂ’d say you were toeing the line and had better zip it.

[Quote Squidward]I was the loudest of several in pointing out the error. But all I did was point out the error.

[ChrisSportsFan]I guess if others were doing it then itÂ’s ok.

[Quote Squidward] But pressure from my wife, convinced me that I should keep my mouth shut.

[ChrisSportsFan]Why do you think she said something? Last weekend I worked games down at the Special Olympics and those parents never said a word. They were happy to see their kids run up and down the court.

Quote Squidward] Why so defensive, folks? I saw the error of my ways. Don't you believe there are bad refs at this level?

[ChrisSportsFan]Sure, as Snaqwells said, there are New Refs and sometime not so new refs that donÂ’t work for the angles and miss-apply rules. The rec games I work, we are expected to tutor these newbies and help bring them along. Do you think your outbursts are helping?

[Quote Squidward]As for the block/charge, the refs call about six blocks a game. In fifteen games, I've seen maybe three charge calls. These refs insist that the defender's feet be perfectly still. And no flinching, even if the kid gets clobbered by a dribbler flying along with his head down.

[ChrisSportsFan]As I said before, sometimes refs miss-apply rules, but many times, the defender will lean into the dribbler, stick an arm or leg out or something like that which makes it an easy block call on the D. Parents donÂ’t see this and they certainly donÂ’t watch a game in the same way an official does. I didnÂ’t see these exact situations you described so itÂ’s hard to comment. IÂ’m just trying to give you some things to consider.

[SpeedyGonGoalie]

I think the bigger trend with more impact is the fact that these games are becoming more competitive. I can't speak for basketball, but in Michigan youth soccer, majors teams, with tryouts, tournaments, $1000+ cost per season and everything are down to U-10. 9 year olds. 3rd graders. Having to tryout for a soccer team. And now, if the kid doesn't make it onto a good majors team at U-10 or U-11, forget premier, forget club, forget high school, and definetly forget college, pros or international. Those have been some of the worst games I've refed as a soccer official (a lot of that is due to the fact that I'm the only one out there, but that's another story).

I was refing a U-7 game (1st graders), which is typically a no-contact rugby scrum back and forth until the ball pops out into a goal or out of bounds. I typically are fairly relaxed in these games, most notably any inbounding type play (throw-ins, goal kicks, corners) I give them an extra chance. Anyway, a little girl fouls another little girl. They go down in a heap, but pop right back up. This kids can barely run straight without falling over, so obviously no harm was intended. I had to physically restrain the coach of the player who was fouled from walking across the field and confronting the other coach, who, to his credit, took the high road and ignored him. What made my job tough was after calming down the coach, I then had to red card him, which got him riled up again (he dropped a f-bomb, and when I ref a soccer game, the field is my office. You kinda have reason to step on a basketball court, but not a soccer field, while yelling obscenties and making it halfway over).

Another incident was when I was waiting out a delayed game while a thunderstorm passed over. Everyone was in their cars, except me and the two coaches. The one coach though was continually demanding that I call the game. It was May, there would be plenty of light to play until 8:30-9:00 if neccessary, so I decided to wait it out, since it looked like it was going to pass. The one coach continued to badger me. A semi-truck rumbled down the road next to the field, and the coach refused to believe it wasn't a roll of thunder. Eventually I called the game, but not until the coach called me a liar, and that I had no respect for anyone's safety (when he said this, I pointed out that he could wait in the safety of his car like everyone else). He did the whole "I'm gonna report you" speil and left. The other coach came up, confirmed with me that he had been pressuring me to call the game, and said he was the commisioner of the league. I learned later that the coach was adament about not replaying the game, and finally let it slip that he didn't want his "playoff seeding" to be affected by playing the best team in the league. Too bad Troy Youth Soccer does random brackets.

Bottom line, you shouldn't be trying out for teams, investing a ton of money, or travling hundreds of miles until the kids are in middle school. If there were more decent coaches at the youth rec level, then there wouldn't be a need to identify kids with potential and give them better teaching at such a young age. The side effect is that players, coaches and parents are now going nuts much earlier.

[refnrev]

Juulie almost quoted my exact words that I have repeated over and over -- "the younger the players the dumber the parents!" It's a universal truth.