In ya'lls is biddy ball and elementary worse than HS.

[SMEngmann]

Fortunately, I haven't really had to deal with any really irate parents at youth league games, although the fact that I'm a pretty big guy helps out. It will be really hard to stop this problem, especially with middle schoolers appearing in Sports Illustrated, and the fact that many of the referees doing these games are relatively inexperienced in terms of game awareness. The parents are more competitive and the officials don't always have the tools to recognize or control this type of situation. The whole thing IMO starts with the coaches, if you control the coaches, the parents will then often (not always) follow suit. I think that any sort of a coaching box should be eliminated for MS and below games, that privilege should be reserved for HS coaches and zero tolerance policies should be implemented and enforced regarding the coach's behavior. Officials often don't penalize the coaches and the impact trickles down to the players and fans, and the game gets out of control. I also often see with younger officials and younger coaches, several adults standing on the bench. I think we take care of these things nationwide, things will begin to improve for the better.

[Squidward]

As the father of a 10yo player, I confess that I got loud, but not abusive, early in the season because some of the officials were just so bad. But pressure from my wife, and a brief exchange with one young and very bad ref, convinced me that I should keep my mouth shut. Now I just appreciate the good officials, even if I disagree with them.

What drives me nuts, though, is the block/charge call, the correct interpretation of which I learned here. These refs call a block if the defender even blinks. Is the NFHS rule the same as the NCAA's, and if so, will it ever trickle down to the 10yo level?

[Rich]

Originally posted by Squidward
As the father of a 10yo player, I confess that I got loud, but not abusive, early in the season because some of the officials were just so bad. But pressure from my wife, and a brief exchange with one young and very bad ref, convinced me that I should keep my mouth shut. Now I just appreciate the good officials, even if I disagree with them.

What drives me nuts, though, is the block/charge call, the correct interpretation of which I learned here. These refs call a block if the defender even blinks. Is the NFHS rule the same as the NCAA's, and if so, will it ever trickle down to the 10yo level?

You're kidding, right? Yelling at refs in a 10yo game?

[LouisianaDave]

Come one saturday down to baton rouge, and you will see lots of parents yelling at us at 10yo games, 4th grade, 3rd grade, etc. Its amazing what people believe we should/shouldnt call when these kids barely can dribble a basketball.

[SMEngmann]

Originally posted by Squidward
As the father of a 10yo player, I confess that I got loud, but not abusive, early in the season because some of the officials were just so bad. But pressure from my wife, and a brief exchange with one young and very bad ref, convinced me that I should keep my mouth shut. Now I just appreciate the good officials, even if I disagree with them.

What drives me nuts, though, is the block/charge call, the correct interpretation of which I learned here. These refs call a block if the defender even blinks. Is the NFHS rule the same as the NCAA's, and if so, will it ever trickle down to the 10yo level?

At the 10 year old level you can't apply the same standard to the refs as at the college level, and I certainly don't think you should get frustrated over block/charge calls. Frankly, a block/charge call in a 3rd/4th grade game happens about once in a blue moon and although I haven't done many games at that level, I can never recall having anything remotely close to a block/charge call in one of those games.

If you have problems with officials in your kids games you should get trained and go out and pick up a whistle. You clearly care enough to review this forum, so why not try calling a few games yourself. Doing so would enhance your credibility in evaluating officials and understanding the lack of tolerance that we have for certain types of fans/parents.

[SMEngmann]

Originally posted by LouisianaDave
Come one saturday down to baton rouge, and you will see lots of parents yelling at us at 10yo games, 4th grade, 3rd grade, etc. Its amazing what people believe we should/shouldnt call when these kids barely can dribble a basketball.

I wonder what the parental reaction would be if officials in a 3/4th grade game started calling everything...

[RefTip]

I have coached my daughter's 5th and 6th grade team and am now coaching my son's 4th grade team this year ( I also officiate these grade levels when I can ) Every year it is getting worse.

This year at a local tournament a parent was upset because the ref did not call a foul on our team and started letting the f bombs fly . Finally the official called the coach over to calm her down, which I thought would work . She shut up , then she started letting the bird fly at the ref . I did a double take to see if that is actually what she was doing and it was . She continued this for the rest of the game ( the official never new it b/c she only " flew it " when his back was turned ) Then she started flying it to our parents ......... bad situation. At the next tournament the coach came up to me and said that he ended up removing the player from the team because of the parents actions. Evidently , this was not the first time for her actions.

We recently had our youth tournament( 4, 5 ,6th grade ) and I officiated a game with a HS student . At half time the student says " I'm getting pretty tired of the coach " I tell him that I will try to stay on the coach's side more often with ( the HS student forgets to switch &/or gets crossed up ) and maybe that will calm the coach down. ....... Wrong ..... he starts chirping and I really don't hear what he is saying until my 3rd trip up the floor . I put up the stop sign and say " Coach I've heard enough ".......... I guess he doesn't know what the stop sign is .......Whack ! I then explain to him that if he continues then he gets a seat in the parking lot . He then settles down and coaches his team to a win . After the game everyone is treating me like a hero b/c I gave him a technical , even the parents from his team.

I really believe that for the most part if the coaches are kept under control the parents usually follow. When I ref these games I give the coaches a little room but not too much. When they start to overstep I give them the stop sign then back it up. By being firm and consistant it does reduce a lot of the problems. I really do like working these games b/c the kids are great ........ unfortunately the parents can really ruin the good time.



[Edited by RefTip on Feb 21st, 2005 at 11:42 PM]

[SMEngmann]

Originally posted by RefTip
I really believe that for the most part if the coaches are kept under control the parents usually follow. When I ref these games I give the coaches a little room but not too much. When they start to overstep I give them the stop sign then back it up. By being firm and consistant it does reduce a lot of the problems. I really do like working these games b/c the kids are great ........ unfortunately the parents can really ruin the good time.
[Edited by RefTip on Feb 21st, 2005 at 11:42 PM]

I give the coaches in these games zero room. At the youth level, the game is about development pure and simple. The first outburst will earn a stern warning or a T for me and the second outburst will definitely earn a T. Youth coaches should be held to the same if not to a higher standard as varsity coaches, especially since there is no pressure to win at the youth level.

The reason so many of these incidents happen is that young refs like the HS student you described will get intimidated and not take action against these coaches, and so the coaches continue to get away with more and more and incite the parents. No leeway, zero tolerance, these guys are supposed to be examples to their kids. And the fact that nobody took care of that guy at the tournament speaks volumes.

[stosh]

At the 10yo level these things are important:
1. The game should be fun
2. The players should be learning
3. The players should be having fun learning

These things should not matter:
1. Who wins
2. Who scores
3. Who is to blame if you lose

If you are screaming at a referee, none of the first three are happening and all of the second three just became important to your child. Every call, good or bad, that a referee makes in these games should be a teaching point, not an excuse to let off steam.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by Squidward
As the father of a 10yo player, I confess that I got loud, but not abusive, early in the season because some of the officials were just so bad. But pressure from my wife, and a brief exchange with one young and very bad ref, convinced me that I should keep my mouth shut. Now I just appreciate the good officials, even if I disagree with them.

What drives me nuts, though, is the block/charge call, the correct interpretation of which I learned here. These refs call a block if the defender even blinks. Is the NFHS rule the same as the NCAA's, and if so, will it ever trickle down to the 10yo level?

Starting at the subvarsity HS level, 2/3 kids that try to take a charge will still stick out a leg or arm. I'm talking about the principles of verticality here Squidward. If they do it there, how many times do you really think a 10 year old will properly take a charge? At that age group, you tend to see most of your offensive fouls called because a kid is pushing the defender away while dribbling. A 10 year old team that shoots 25% will win alot of games. That means if they will only make 1 out of 4 shots they'll probably win and you're worried about a block/charge call? At least I'd smile at you when I had you escorted out!

[Junker]

Sportsmanship definitely seeems to get worse as you move down in grade level. I think I throw 3 times as many T's at that level. Partly, admittedly, because I refuse to put up with much in a lower level game, but mostly because people are so ignorant. They learn everything they know (coaches and fans) from TV and we all know how accurate that is. Another problem is that there is very little accountablilty for these coaches. Sure, I may toss a coach from a weekend tournament, but where I'm at, there's no governing body to make sure he doesn't coach next week. If fact, I've workded tournaments where I'm pretty sure if I tossed someone, they'd be back for their next game. I enjoy helping the kids learn the game, but the coaches and fans make it almost unbearable. I am giving up these tournaments next year. I really didn't want to do any this year, but I bought a new computer Sunday and its a quick way to pick up some bucks.

[coachgbert]

I coached my 6th grade girls in a championship game on Sunday. We won 4 straight to get there. The coach of the other team was ill tempered, bad mannered and the didn't even know the basic rules of the game. He wanted calls, calls and calls. He wanted my girls ejected for tying up the ball. He wanted them to stop stealing, stop pressing, stop everything that we were doing to win. He was on the floor screaming, his group of parents were screaming. We won by 2 points in the last 45 seconds. I told my girls to stall and run the clock. He screamed for his team to foul so they did. They inbounded, we stole it, he screamed some more. Finally as time ran out he ran on the floor screaming at the ref that they lost the game for him. The parents of his players demanded a rematch for "bad reffing" and wanted the refs reported. They wanted us to replay a championship game for a bunch of 11 year old youth ball players. I wished one of the refs would have handed out a T. The guy acted like he wanted one, heck give it to him. These coaches ruin it for everyone.

I know I hear a lot that no one cares about rec ball. I do because I try to teach the kids the rules, the game, the fundamentals AND make sure they have a good experience. Then maybe the HS games that do matter will be better for everyone.

I agree that the behavior becomes worse the younger the age group. Everyone parent has a superstar and budding WNBA player in the making. I'm burned out. I'm glad we won, but glad the league and tournament is over. I have a 7th grade AAU team starting tonight. New players, new faces, new start. Change is good.

Coach Gbert

[Mark Padgett]

I would venture a guess and say I've probably done more youth games than anyone on the board (at least 2500 - I'm not kidding). I was on the Board of our local youth rec league for 13 years and have worked youth games for at least seven different organizations. I have seen the sportsmanship level go from bad to awful. I'm sure there are tons of reasons for it.

Here's some of the mechanisms we have put in place in recent years in our local league (over 1500 kids in grades 3-12):

1) no coaching box
2) any profanity is a flagrant technical (except at HS level)
3) any ejection for unsportmanlike conduct is an automatic indefinite suspension which can only be ended by appealing to the Board
4) no backcourt press if lead is 15 or more
5) no backcourt guarding at all in 3rd and 4th grade
6) score turned off in 3rd and 4th if lead is 15 or more
7) (this is the big one) coaches are totally responsible for the behavior of their player's parents - indirect technicals can be called on coaches for parent misbehavior, however, the coaches are given a chance to deal with the parent first

[Edited by Mark Padgett on Feb 22nd, 2005 at 02:23 PM]

[totalnewbie]

Coach

That was a refreshing post. I'm sure there are plenty of good coaches out there like you who get peeved at the cheesy coaches and fans too. Thanks!

Clark

[Dudly]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
I Two methods: (1) ask parent if he/she wants to leave (2) while holding the ball before throwin stare at him/her for several seconds.

Here's one I tried over the weekend. Parent was in normal form. At a TO I took an extra zebra shirt to him, told him my partner just hurt his foot and since he seemed to be well versed in the rules he could finish the game for him.

The other one was to go to the parent and ask him to go over his counting ability again so I could be sure I was doing it correctly.