Question for other Intramural Refs

[Mark Dexter]

(We're apparently slowly taking over the board . . .)

On average, how many technical fouls do you call in a season/week/night/game?

I'm asking because I've always had far more T's than anyone else with whom I ref, but the number has spiked this year, especially compared to last year - last season I averaged one T every three games, while this season I'm averaging more than one T every game.

This week has seemed especially bad, with as many technicals in two nights as I called all last season.

Is this trend in poor sportsmanship and behavior limited to GW, or has it spread elsewhere? Are there refs like me at other schools, or is everyone else doing IM ball rather lenient?

[bradfordwilkins]

Like you, I'm high on the end of technical fouls called at UMD. I think a big factor in this is that a lot of the new referees (or even the more experienced ones) barely have the guts make their own calls sometimes, let alone call a technical. So they take abuse. I had a partner have a player literally scream into their face for about 15 seconds till I came and seperated him. Asked why he didn't tech the player, he said he almost did.

I'm pretty leniant compared to the letter of the law when it comes to technicals, just because an ejection from our intermural program is a big deal, suspension from playing the rset of the year, etc.

The automatic techs without warnings for me will be: swearing at me or my partners, hanging on the rim, touching a ball as a defender while the offense is out of bounds. Obviously were a fight or anythign flagrant occur (luckily none of that yet!), those would also occur.

What I'm mroe leniant on is constant complaining, slamming the ball, or loud profanity. Most of those will get 1-2 warnings and then a WHACK. The other night had a player slam a ball after thinking he was fouled. Warning. Next time down the floor he made a basket and thought he was fouled again, slams the ball again. WHACK!

But most of my techs come from direct profanity torwards me or a partner.

[ctpfive]

I officiated 26 games this season and did not hand out a T. However, I probably should have in a couple of situations.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by bradfordwilkins

What I'm mroe leniant on is constant complaining, slamming the ball, or loud profanity. Most of those will get 1-2 warnings and then a WHACK. The other night had a player slam a ball after thinking he was fouled. Warning. Next time down the floor he made a basket and thought he was fouled again, slams the ball again. WHACK!

While I've gotten a *bit* better at looking at intent with a slammed ball, if it was directed at me or done to show me up, I give the T (mention that and the NIRSA regional to Kurt - he'll probably remember who I am, unfortunately).

I think I'm getting better at giving warnings when appropriate. I even warned the captain about one of his players last night, but I ended up having to T the player anyways at the end of the game.

I was a bit shocked by the penalty for an ejection at UMD. At GW, you're generally suspended one week/one game for your first offense. And, while I try to not let outside factors influence my calls, I'd probably eject fewer people if their suspension was season-long.

My biggest problem this year, by far, has been post-game. This year, I've ejected 3 players after the game has ended - with the time ranging from 15 seconds later to 3 minutes later! It seems amazing what people think they can get away with, just because the final horn has gone off. (And, because it's intramurals, we stick around )

[CaptStevenM]

I average about 1 a week. Though I have a reprutation for giving out techs and not letting players mouth off, along with bradford I'm on the high end of techs. Contrary to public belief, I do let players gripe a little but when it comes to loud cursing, questioning the credibility of me and my partner, or they cross that line, WHACK!

[Snake~eyes]

I'm in the middle for HS games, for rec ball I am on the high end. Once I give the stop sign, the T comes next, I don't mess around with that. And I protect my partner(s) very much so, you will get a T faster for talking about my partners than talking about me. When its time to take care of business, its time to take care of business.

[SMEngmann]

I call my IM technicals by the book when it's directed at me, I will let some of the language technicalities slide a bit as long as it's frustration and not directed at anyone, but nothing else. I range on the high end in IM technicals as well and I have no qualms about sending a guy off if he's out of line, I've gone with flagrant Ts in IM. Maybe someone needs to get tossed and suspended all season to get people in line. I don't worry about the consequences for other people in their actions, because if they're dumb enough to get tossed, they deserve what they get, my standard won't change.

Another thing that I've done when I work IM games is that I won't be as formal with my warnings as I am in HS games. If someone pulls something and tries to show me or my partner up, they will get an unpleasant earful from me about it and I will address the action by admonishing it. Often this seems more successful than the formal warning, then T procedure.

[mxd]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
(We're apparently slowly taking over the board . . .)

On average, how many technical fouls do you call in a season/week/night/game?

At least 1-2 on most nights. That number goes up toward the end of the season and shoots up in the playoffs.

Some of my favorite technical foul memories:

-- Guy punting a ball so high it hit the ceiling

-- A player realizing his errant pass was going to be a backcourt violation and kicking the ball into the bleachers.

-- A player saying "That's chicken sh*t" and then claiming he actually said 'Chicken Strips'

My favorite quote from an intramural athlete participant comes from this dude who got rejected on a lay-up:

"That's a foul ref, he hit me on the thumb!"

[bradfordwilkins]

" Maybe someone needs to get tossed and suspended all season to get people in line."

One more thought to add... one of the hardest things I deal with, as I'm sure some of you who take the time to come on here and continue your referee education, is most of the time my partners will NOT be supporting me.

Whether it be because its Fraternity game and one of the refs is in another Frat, thus doesn't want to ruin his rep as a cool dude to invite to parties, a lack of understanding of the rules of basketball or just not having the balls to stand up to someone.

Just last week I had two partners sell me out. First one, I had called two lane violations for BLANTANT violations that resulted both times in the defender getting the rebound since he was stepping in at release. The partner calls out from under the hoop up to me to calm down and just let them play. Thanks for the credability undermining . Later same game I had a player come up to me after a foul and just to express himself, yelled right at me "Thats bull**** man" WHACK! As I'm walking up to report it, partner says he didn't hear anything (I was lead and he was trail) I told him what he said... partner says I don't have the right to call a technical without a warning if both of us didn't hear it. OY!

Second game was the situation I ran by the board earlier this week... had the guy bearhug someone without the ball from behind and begin to pull him backwards. X Intentional foul. Called a quick conference with partners to let them know whats up. One of my partners starts screaming thats not an intentional foul. And repeating it louder and louder, even calling me a dumbass as one point. I explained he clearly wasn't making a play for the ball and thus it was an intentional foul. The other ref tried to talk to me like I haven't been involved with basketball since I was 3 years old, explaining that while its technically an intentional, you shouldn't call it where it can effect the game. GEEZ. Meanwhile, the other partner is bantering with the players about he's sorry that "He (read: me) doesn't know what he's talking about" Obviously after that I had no choice but to take a bit of a verbal beating from the offending team for a minute really. Gave them a warning after a little and moved on.

Those partners have had me wish we could eject officials haha

[I'msureofit]

have a general idea per season if I'm high or low. It's really just a barometer to me of how the players and coaches have been in a given year; and, whether rules changes should be looked at for the next year. Bottom line, I really don't care about a specific amount but whether the circumstances behind a T were justified.

Of course the unquestionable T's mentioned in this thread that are of flagrant nature get the immmediate T without warning. I even used to give no warnings on certain language but this year I have started giving warnings that aid justifying the T the next time around. One more lesson learned.

I've been in this youth rec league for about 10 years. The respectful treatment of officials by player and coaches are well stated within the league rules. However, we all know that inevitably competition will overide peoples judgement even in a league where we're attempting to teach the game and the sportsmanship of it. In those ten years, my reputation of take no crap precedes me. Coaches and players alike know that I'm not hesitant to whack em; not that it will always stop em'. My partners, on the other hand, tend to very hesitant whether their experienced or not. Only three or four other officals out of 17 have the same philosphy that if you try me, I will do it. We have one guy who is proud of the fact that he has only 3 T's in seven years. He thinks it's enough to speak authoritatvely. Means nothing unless they think you will whack em'- -you may as well have a weak whistle and voice when you sell your tough calls as well. It might make me look like a hardass sometimes but I could care a less. It's about respect for the game and the official and the T, when used correctly, gets just that, regardless of how many you've called.

[I'msureofit]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bradfordwilkins
my partners will NOT be supporting me.

After making my post I went back and read yours more carefully bradford. What a sense of deja vu overcame me. To me, it is the WORST when partners do not support me. Fortunately, it is infrequent because most know that I know what I'm doing. But when they make an outward disagreement with me I just want to send them into the stands. You better come and huddle with me like a professional and, to be honest, most do. Even when they make a ridiculous call I just turn my head away from everyone and raise my eyebrows at most, but I still support his call unless there was something worth huddling about and it was correctable.

Just last week in a Bantam game, I gave the coaches son a warning for a disrespectul tone he gave because he thought he got fouled on a lay up. I warned his coach/dad on the way back up the floor. Next time down this kid goes in for a lay up and I called the foul to which he sarcastically said, "thank youuuuuuu." Atypical for me I ignored that one but when he got on the line for FT's he said something else to me and in turn I whacked him. His daddy went beserk (which I expected having T'd various players of his over the years) and trapped me long enough that I gave him a quick and calm explanation then bolted to the other side of the gym. Now, here's the kicker. Right after we resumed play, I find my experienced partner, whom I never seen call a T, talking with the kid in what appeared to be a consoling manner during a stoppage in play. That pissed me right off. Then, after the game, I see my partner who is usually right out of there hanging around. I don't know for a fact but I'm pretty sure he was going to console the coach too. T is called and has been justified, now get the hell out of the gym you jackass: that's all he had to do.

[CaptStevenM]

Originally posted by bradfordwilkins
" Maybe someone needs to get tossed and suspended all season to get people in line."

One more thought to add... one of the hardest things I deal with, as I'm sure some of you who take the time to come on here and continue your referee education, is most of the time my partners will NOT be supporting me.

Whether it be because its Fraternity game and one of the refs is in another Frat, thus doesn't want to ruin his rep as a cool dude to invite to parties, a lack of understanding of the rules of basketball or just not having the balls to stand up to someone.

Just last week I had two partners sell me out. First one, I had called two lane violations for BLANTANT violations that resulted both times in the defender getting the rebound since he was stepping in at release. The partner calls out from under the hoop up to me to calm down and just let them play. Thanks for the credability undermining . Later same game I had a player come up to me after a foul and just to express himself, yelled right at me "Thats bull**** man" WHACK! As I'm walking up to report it, partner says he didn't hear anything (I was lead and he was trail) I told him what he said... partner says I don't have the right to call a technical without a warning if both of us didn't hear it. OY!

Second game was the situation I ran by the board earlier this week... had the guy bearhug someone without the ball from behind and begin to pull him backwards. X Intentional foul. Called a quick conference with partners to let them know whats up. One of my partners starts screaming thats not an intentional foul. And repeating it louder and louder, even calling me a dumbass as one point. I explained he clearly wasn't making a play for the ball and thus it was an intentional foul. The other ref tried to talk to me like I haven't been involved with basketball since I was 3 years old, explaining that while its technically an intentional, you shouldn't call it where it can effect the game. GEEZ. Meanwhile, the other partner is bantering with the players about he's sorry that "He (read: me) doesn't know what he's talking about" Obviously after that I had no choice but to take a bit of a verbal beating from the offending team for a minute really. Gave them a warning after a little and moved on.

Those partners have had me wish we could eject officials haha

I feel bad for you bradford. I haven't had any partners to any thing that bad. If one of them did, they probably wouldn't be working at intramurals anymore. My problems usually come with new partners calling out of their area which can cause problems.

Last night I was doing a close game, I was at trail. A takes a shot and the ball bounces off the rim and hits the top of the backboard, rolls across the top of the backboard and then falls back down and it rebounded by A. However, as the ball was on top of the backboard, my partner at lead blew the whistle, calling it out of bounds. I did a quick conference with my partner and said it was an inadvertant whistle and since no one was in possesion of the ball, we went to the possion arrow.
My partner had a real good game overall, I just told him after the game to not worry about the ball on top of the backboard, cause if you call that that means you were looking up at the ball and not watching your area.

It been a good season this year with the first year refs really wanting to learn and improve. The ref I mentioned above I worked with earlier in the season. He would call fouls by blowing his whistle then getting his fist up kind of slow after, sometime not getting his hand up at all. Last night everytime he called a foul, his fist went strait up. It does an senior offical good to see a new guy inprove.