Where coaches get this stuff

Jimgolf · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Feb 13, 2005, 11:45pm

This weekend was the start of CYO playoffs. For the playoffs, CYO hires certified High School refs. I heard the following calls made by officials, "Over the back", Over and back", "That's a reach", "Self pass", "Hand check", and "Up and down". I suspect that some refs may be dumbing down their game to match the audience, but this does a diservice to the game and contributes to the ignorance.

Please keep to proper mechanics and terminology. While it is not the officals' responsibility to educate the masses, professionalism should always rule the day.

JCurrie · #2 (**permalink**) Sun Feb 13, 2005, 11:50pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jimgolf
"Hand check"

You may want to check out the NFHS signal chart, I believe hand checking is number 10. That being said, I agree with you on the rest. Things like "over the back" are actually misleading and create a great deal of confusion.

JRutledge · #3 (**permalink**) Sun Feb 13, 2005, 11:57pm

"Over and back" and "hand check" are actual rulebook terminology.

Peace

Jimgolf · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 14, 2005, 01:11am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
"Over and back" and "hand check" are actual rulebook terminology.

Peace

Sorry, "over and back" was a typo for "over the back".

"Hand check" was just ignorance on my part. I thought you were supposed to call "Illegal use of hand" on that one. I hadn't heard it called all year, so it kind of surprised me. I gotta get some sleep.

Adam · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 14, 2005, 01:32am

I've had a quite a few partners call "Reach" and "over the back" this year, and it's been quite frustrating. Some of them are actually good partners except for that aspect. My one college game this year, one of my partners called about half a dozen reaches in my primary where there was no contact. That's frustrating, because then you really can't answer the coach when he asks for a "reach" call. I have to ignore him then, rather than answer him.

Boiler14 · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 14, 2005, 04:10pm

When fans yell, "They are reaching in!" I want to so badly turn around and say, "And what is the problem with that?"

But I don't. I just let them yell they are reaching in and wait for CONTACT on that reaching in.

Adam · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 14, 2005, 04:17pm

Fan: "He's reaching in."
What I want to say: "Should I ask him to stop playing defense?"
What I really say: "

"

thumpferee · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 14, 2005, 04:18pm

And not all contact is a foul!

eventnyc · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 14, 2005, 04:46pm

Quote:

Originally posted by thumpferee
And not all contact is a foul!

Thump, please clear this up for me. If B1 reaches in and makes contact AND A1 loses the ball, tweet, I have a foul. I don't suspect there is any disagreement with this. Describe the contact that isn't a foul. Are you referring to slight contact where there is no disadvantage (no loss of ball)? Or, incidental contact?

Adam · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 14, 2005, 04:49pm

If B1 has and maintains his LGP, and reaches in with his hand, there can be contact with no foul; if the contact is on the body. He doesn't lose LGP because he reaches.
Also, if he reaches in and hits the hand where it is considered part of the ball; no foul.

gostars · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 14, 2005, 04:54pm

During a MS-girls game I had this year there was a fan who was yelling about reaching all night long. The players were reaching in but there was very little if any contact (they might have brushed the jersey) and I wasn't going to call it. During a time out this fan yelled "Hey Ref, reaching = foul" I almost turned around and replied "No! Reaching + Contact = Foul" but I just let him yell. There was a supervisor there that night and he said that the fan didn't have a clue.

JRutledge · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 14, 2005, 04:58pm

Quote:

Originally posted by eventnyc

Quote:

Originally posted by thumpferee
And not all contact is a foul!

Thump, please clear this up for me. If B1 reaches in and makes contact AND A1 loses the ball, tweet, I have a foul. I don't suspect there is any disagreement with this. Describe the contact that isn't a foul. Are you referring to slight contact where there is no disadvantage (no loss of ball)? Or, incidental contact?

B1 slaps at the ball, makes contact with the ball first and in the follow thru makes contact with the arm. I do not have a foul in that case. The continuing contact is just incidental contact in my view. Basketball is a contact sport. There can be contact without us blowing our whistle every now and then.

Peace

thumpferee · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 14, 2005, 05:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by eventnyc

Quote:

Originally posted by thumpferee
And not all contact is a foul!

Thump, please clear this up for me. If B1 reaches in and makes contact AND A1 loses the ball, tweet, I have a foul. I don't suspect there is any disagreement with this. Describe the contact that isn't a foul. Are you referring to slight contact where there is no disadvantage (no loss of ball)? Or, incidental contact?

As others have mentioned in defense of my statement, here is another 1.

A1 dribbles through two defenders, loses control of ball momentarily when B1 reaches and slaps hand of A1 unintentionally while going for the ball.

Players, coaches, parents and fans yell that's a foul, he's reaching!

NOT! to me.

Incidental contact.

Not all contact is a foul!

eventnyc · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 14, 2005, 09:08pm

I understand. I am aware of the offense trying to split two defenders and going in wild. I very rarely give them a call on an out of control player. If he really gets hammered, I'd probably call it. I would have to see it to decide on it!
Thanks all!

Camron Rust · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 15, 2005, 03:14am

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells
If B1 has and maintains his LGP, and reaches in with his hand, there can be contact with no foul; if the contact is on the body. He doesn't lose LGP because he reaches.
Also, if he reaches in and hits the hand where it is considered part of the ball; no foul.

While I agree with your conclusion that it might not be a foul, LGP has absolutely nothing to do with contact made with a hand while "reaching". It just as well could be a foul when a player with LGP contacts the opponents body with a hand.