Injured player is replaced and substitue shoots his free throws?

[Coach Richard]

My team played in a tournament final the other day and an injured player was replaced and the substitue shot his free throws. My understanding is that the injured player cannot return after that. The official assured me that the player could return and that he was 100% sure. This happened twice to the same player and the opposing coach substituted in a foul shooter who went 2/2 on both occaisons and was subbed out soon after by the injured player.

What is the ruling under NCAA men's basketball rules and where can I find the ruling in the rule book or somewhere official so I have a ruling available if it occurs again?

Coach Richard

[Edited by Coach Richard on Feb 6th, 2005 at 11:13 PM]

[Kelvin green]

NFHS rules-injured player can return
NCAA- same as NFHS
NBA cannot return unless injured on a flagrant 2 penalty.

The NCAA rule book is online at http://www.ncaa.org.
There is no prohibition in the NCAA rule.

Hope this helps

[blindzebra]

They may re-enter during the next chance to sub after the clock has run.

[tjones1]

Right, which means they couldn't return after the second free throw, however other subs can.

[Coach Richard]

What stops a coach from having poor free throw shooters fake injuries so good shooters can shoot their free throws for them? I find it hard to believe that is allowed.

I have searched my NCAA rulebook quite thoroughly and cannot find this rule. Are there rules not covered in the NCCA Rulebook?

ie: The other day I tried to confirm for a parent that fouls from the second half team fouls carry-over for bonus in extra periods and could not find that rule in the NCCA book either.

Coach Richard

[Edited by Coach Richard on Feb 6th, 2005 at 11:29 PM]

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Coach Richard
What stops a coach from having poor free throw shooters fake injuries so good shooters can shoot their free throws for them? I find it hard to believe that is allowed.

Have you ever seen a coach do this?

I probably don't have three situations a year where this occurs.

I have searched my NCAA rulebook quite thoroughly and cannot find this rule. Are there rules not covered in the NCCA Rulebook?

ie: The other day I tried to confirm for a parent that fouls from the second half carry-over for bonus in extra periods and could not find that rule in the NCCA book either.

Coach, rules don't always cover a specific situation. Many times, you have to apply several rules to arrive at the correct ruling.

-An overtime is an extension of the 4th quarter and the 2nd half.
-When a team commits 7 team fouls in a half, the opponent is in the bonus.
-Therefore, all team fouls incurred during the second half go toward the bonus.

[Nevadaref]

Kelvin is completely correct.
Here are the two relevant clips from the NFHS Rules Book. You will see that while there are some restrictions on re-entry, the only time that an injured player is barred from returning is when that player was determined to be unconscious, then a doctor's permission is needed.

Rule 8 - SECTION 2 ATTEMPTING PERSONAL-FOUL FREE THROWS
The free throw(s) awarded because of a personal foul shall be attempted by the offended player. If such player must withdraw because of an injury or disqualification, his/her substitute shall attempt the throw(s) unless no substitute is available, in which case any teammate may attempt the throw(s) as selected by the team captain or head coach.

Rule 3 - SECTION 3 SUBSTITUTION
ART. 1 . . . A substitute who desires to enter shall report to the scorer, giving his/her number.

a. Between quarters, at halftime and during a time-out, the substitute must report or be in position to report to the scorer, prior to the warning signal which is sounded 15 seconds before the end of the intermission for a 60-second time-out and prior to the 20-second warning during a 30-second time-out.
b. Substitutions between halves may be made by the substitute or a team representative.
c. During multiple free-throw personal fouls, substitutions may be made only before the final attempt in the sequence and after the final attempt has been converted.

EXCEPTION: When a player is required by rule to be replaced prior to administering the free throw(s), then all other substitutes who have legally reported may also enter the game.

d. If entry is at any time other than between quarters, and a substitute who is entitled and ready to enter reports to the scorer, the scorer shall use a sounding device or game horn, if, or as soon as, the ball is dead and the clock is stopped.
e. A captain may request a defensive match-up if three or more substitutes from the same team enter during an opportunity to substitute.

ART. 2 . . . The substitute shall remain outside the boundary until an official beckons, whereupon he/she shall enter immediately. If the ball is about to become live, the beckoning signal should be withheld. The entering substitute shall not replace a designated jumper or a free thrower except as in 8-2 and 3. If the substitute enters to replace a player who must jump or attempt a free throw, he/she shall withdraw until the next opportunity to substitute.

ART. 3 . . . A substitute becomes a player when he/she legally enters the court. If entry is not legal, the substitute becomes a player when the ball becomes live. A player becomes bench personnel after his/her substitute becomes a player or after notification of the coach following his/her disqualification.

ART. 4 . . . A player who has been replaced, or directed to leave the game shall not re-enter before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been started properly following his/her replacement.

ART. 5 . . . A player who has been injured to the extent that the coach or any other bench personnel is beckoned and/or comes onto the court shall be directed to leave the game, unless a time-out is requested by, and granted to, his/her team and the situation can be corrected by the end of the time-out.

ART. 6 . . . A player who is bleeding, has an open wound, has an excessive amount of blood on his/her uniform, or has blood on his/her person, shall be directed to leave the game, unless a time-out is requested by, and granted to, his/her team and the situation can be corrected by the end of the time-out.

NOTE: (Arts. 5, 6) If players from both teams are directed to leave the game because of injury/blood, both teams must request and be granted a time-out in order to keep each player in the game.

ART. 7 . . . A player who has been determined apparently unconscious shall not return to play in the game without written authorization from a physician (MD/DO).

[blindzebra]

3-4-12 and 8-2-2-A cover subs and FTs in NCAA and 3-4 and 8-2 cover it in NF.

5-8-3 covers extra periods in NCAA, it's under 5-7-3 in NF.

[Edited by blindzebra on Feb 6th, 2005 at 11:41 PM]

[Coach Richard]

Twice in my last game the opposing team's best player went down "injured", a substitute shot his free throws (went 2/2 both times) and then he returned to the game within minutes.

Does no one else think that at high levels this could be a strategy of an unscrupulous coach.

What happens in NCAA Division I basketball? I was quite sure they could not return.

[Edited by Coach Richard on Feb 6th, 2005 at 11:44 PM]

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Coach Richard
Twice in my last game the opposing team's best player went down "injured", a substitute shot his free throws (went 2/2 both times) and then he returned to the game within minutes.

Does no one else think that at high levels this could be a strategy of an unscrupulous coach.

What happens in NCAA Division I basketball? I was quite sure they couls not return.

Coach, I am quite sure that the player can return in NCAA Division I games.
Only in the NBA may he not return.
Sure, this could be abused at the HS and college level, but generally is not. Trust us.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Coach Richard
Twice in my last game the opposing team's best player went down "injured", a substitute shot his free throws (went 2/2 both times) and then he returned to the game within minutes.

Does no one else think that at high levels this could be a strategy of an unscrupulous coach.

What happens in NCAA Division I basketball? I was quite sure they could not return.

[Edited by Coach Richard on Feb 6th, 2005 at 11:44 PM]

Yes, a coach could use it to their advantage by having a player fake an injury, but no a player directed to leave the game for injury may return on the next opportunity to sub after the clock has run.

[TriggerMN]

Coach-->

If you are 100% certain that this coach is having his players fake injury simply to substitute in a better free-throw shooter, the only course of action you have is to notify your state association.

Officials at the high school level and above WILL NOT question the wellness of a player, period. If the player or coach says a player is injured, the official has no choice but to act upon the injury.

I question the coach's integrity and spirit for the game who would circumvent this rule for his advantage, but of course it's possible to do so without penalty. Again, notify the state, and if you have a game tape, let them know this as well.