End of game sitch - Page 2

blindzebra · #16 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 02, 2005, 01:57pm

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Originally posted by Dan_ref

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Originally posted by blindzebra

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Originally posted by Dan_ref

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Originally posted by blindzebra

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Originally posted by David B

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Originally posted by Dan_ref

I don't agree that the T couldn't take this call if he was sure it was there. I can see why he didn't have a whistle since it looked like the L had something initially, but he could have come in with his fist up once he realized things were getting confusing.

It happened so quickly, trail was at FT line on other end.

Ball was inbounded to half court, whipped to lane and then shot.

I started at half court, I was expecting the game tying shot to be a three and wanted to get a good look at the clock.

Drive started on the other side of lane. I agree young official should have made the call.

What I would do differently is go to him, ask why he raised his hand and then let him make the decision.

Packed gym going crazy so I didn't have time to talk afterward, but I have a game with the guy next week, we will talk about what we could do differently then.

Thanks
David

I'd consider this transition coverage and C's secondary.

You had the last shot, and seeing the clock is not as important as seeing the shot, that is what the horn is for.

I'd say C NEEDS to make this call if they are sure they have a foul.

In his original post David said he couldn't tell if there was a foul or not. While I agree someone probably needed to take this that someone was not David, who at the C wasn't sure what he had.

This is why he was not sure.

"I started at half court, I was expecting the game tying shot to be a three and wanted to get a good look at the clock."

C needs to be in position to see the shot and not so focused on the clock, IMO.

From what I read he was in good position for the quick pass down court and a 3 going up. Don't forget this play started at the endline. BTW someone has to be aware of the clock in this sitch to make sure it starts correctly.

Being aware and being focused are very different things.

I read, I wanted a GOOD LOOK at the clock and was EXPECTING a 3 point shot. The pass to the lane and the contact that followed caught BOTH lead and center by surprise. The young official froze up and the vet was not in position to see the shot and help on the foul.

This has as much to do with C's breakdown as it does leads.

David B · #17 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 02, 2005, 04:19pm

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Originally posted by Dan_ref

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Originally posted by blindzebra

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Originally posted by Dan_ref

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Originally posted by blindzebra

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Originally posted by David B

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Originally posted by Dan_ref

I don't agree that the T couldn't take this call if he was sure it was there. I can see why he didn't have a whistle since it looked like the L had something initially, but he could have come in with his fist up once he realized things were getting confusing.

It happened so quickly, trail was at FT line on other end.

Ball was inbounded to half court, whipped to lane and then shot.

I started at half court, I was expecting the game tying shot to be a three and wanted to get a good look at the clock.

Drive started on the other side of lane. I agree young official should have made the call.

What I would do differently is go to him, ask why he raised his hand and then let him make the decision.

Packed gym going crazy so I didn't have time to talk afterward, but I have a game with the guy next week, we will talk about what we could do differently then.

Thanks
David

I'd consider this transition coverage and C's secondary.

You had the last shot, and seeing the clock is not as important as seeing the shot, that is what the horn is for.

I'd say C NEEDS to make this call if they are sure they have a foul.

In his original post David said he couldn't tell if there was a foul or not. While I agree someone probably needed to take this that someone was not David, who at the C wasn't sure what he had.

This is why he was not sure.

"I started at half court, I was expecting the game tying shot to be a three and wanted to get a good look at the clock."

C needs to be in position to see the shot and not so focused on the clock, IMO.

From what I read he was in good position for the quick pass down court and a 3 going up. Don't forget this play started at the endline. BTW someone has to be aware of the clock in this sitch to make sure it starts correctly.

This was exactly my thoughts as the C. Make sure the clock starts, be aware of the 3 and then everything else.

As the ball moved to front court and then the lane I moved up the court but as stated could not tell if a foul since the defense was between me and the player shooting.

Touch situation, we'll learn from it and go on.

My young official I'm sure will be prepared next time to make the correct call.

thanks
David

zebraman · #18 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 02, 2005, 05:11pm

Quote:

Originally posted by David B
Touch situation, we'll learn from it and go on.

My young official I'm sure will be prepared next time to make the correct call.

thanks
David

"We'll learn from it" or "he'll learn from it?" You said you asked him if he had a foul. He said no. You said you couldn't see it. Why do you assume he wasn't prepared to make the correct call? If you didn't see it, you don't know. If you are sure it was a foul, maybe you should have gone and got it. You were 2 vets with a rookie.... don't put this all on him.

Z

Dan_ref · #19 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 02, 2005, 08:50pm

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Originally posted by blindzebra

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Originally posted by Dan_ref

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Originally posted by blindzebra

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Originally posted by Dan_ref

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Originally posted by blindzebra

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Originally posted by David B

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Originally posted by Dan_ref

I don't agree that the T couldn't take this call if he was sure it was there. I can see why he didn't have a whistle since it looked like the L had something initially, but he could have come in with his fist up once he realized things were getting confusing.

It happened so quickly, trail was at FT line on other end.

Ball was inbounded to half court, whipped to lane and then shot.

I started at half court, I was expecting the game tying shot to be a three and wanted to get a good look at the clock.

Drive started on the other side of lane. I agree young official should have made the call.

What I would do differently is go to him, ask why he raised his hand and then let him make the decision.

Packed gym going crazy so I didn't have time to talk afterward, but I have a game with the guy next week, we will talk about what we could do differently then.

Thanks
David

I'd consider this transition coverage and C's secondary.

You had the last shot, and seeing the clock is not as important as seeing the shot, that is what the horn is for.

I'd say C NEEDS to make this call if they are sure they have a foul.

In his original post David said he couldn't tell if there was a foul or not. While I agree someone probably needed to take this that someone was not David, who at the C wasn't sure what he had.

This is why he was not sure.

"I started at half court, I was expecting the game tying shot to be a three and wanted to get a good look at the clock."

C needs to be in position to see the shot and not so focused on the clock, IMO.

From what I read he was in good position for the quick pass down court and a 3 going up. Don't forget this play started at the endline. BTW someone has to be aware of the clock in this sitch to make sure it starts correctly.

Being aware and being focused are very different things.

I read, I wanted a GOOD LOOK at the clock and was EXPECTING a 3 point shot. The pass to the lane and the contact that followed caught BOTH lead and center by surprise. The young official froze up and the vet was not in position to see the shot and help on the foul.

This has as much to do with C's breakdown as it does leads.

No it doesn't.

The C was doing his job. The L messed up.

Dan_ref · #20 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 02, 2005, 08:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman

Quote:

Originally posted by David B
Touch situation, we'll learn from it and go on.

My young official I'm sure will be prepared next time to make the correct call.

thanks
David

"We'll learn from it" or "he'll learn from it?" You said you asked him if he had a foul. He said no. You said you couldn't see it. Why do you assume he wasn't prepared to make the correct call? If you didn't see it, you don't know. If you are sure it was a foul, maybe you should have gone and got it. You were 2 vets with a rookie.... don't put this all on him.

Z

From what I read here the rook put his arm up with no whistle. I don't know about you, but to me asking if there's a foul on the play is absolutely required before they run off the court.

SamIAm · #21 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 02, 2005, 09:26pm

There is only one error that is known: The L raised his arm. The rest is speculation.

David B · #22 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 02, 2005, 09:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by SamIAm
There is only one error that is known: The L raised his arm. The rest is speculation.

It is, but it makes good for a little fodder on the internet board.

It also is good to hear what other people do, or if they have had the same situation how they handled it.

I know when I was a young official I was put in games that I did not belong and I learned the hard way, from my mistakes.

I know there were several times (I keep them in my book) that I did not make a call at the end of the game and I should have. But as I progressed, I learned that at the end of the game, you make certain that you have a foul and then you call it.

This year I have had several games where the R would quickly huddle the three officials and make a statement about a game situation. That is good officiating IMO.

Again thanks for the comments
David

RookieDude · #23 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 01:13am

Just skimmed the thread.

Maybe it has been brought up or implied...but the C has got to come over and be stronger.
You were put there to be a veteran...act like one.
Help the rookie out and talk him into the foul that you know happened.
Get your other partner...both you "veterans" bail him out.
Give the losing team a chance to tie it...they deserve it..have fun...go to OT.
Smile.
You got it right.

bob jenkins · #24 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 03, 2005, 10:14am

Quote:

Originally posted by SamIAm
There is only one error that is known: The L raised his arm. The rest is speculation.

Exactly. From the original: "He releases just before horn sounds and I think he is fouled but really could not tell. Lead raises his arm like he has a foul but makes no call.

Coach wants the foul so I go to my lead and ask "did you have a foul" and he says no."

Possible explanations:

L anticipated a call. Heck, we've all raised an arm and then not called anything -- but it usually has happened in the middle fo the game and even if someone notices there's not much comment.

L heard the horn and instinctively raised his hand (maybe it was even an open hand). That's pretty common among newer officials.

Maybe with the long pass, L thought he now had the "last shot" responsibilities.

If it was an "elephant", go get it. If it wasn't, ask, then leave it alone.