Possesion arrow indicators for whistles

[Adam]

Originally Posted by amusedofficial

I have a tremendous idea on how to avoid the arrow issues, and not have to suffer the gross indignity and mortal shame of changing rocks from one pocket to the other, unbuttoning pocket flaps, dealing with clueless table personnel, or chanting blue ball during every throw-in. Obviously such actions detract from our stature and we must never do such undignified things, even tough it makes it absolutely clear to everyone in the building that we're making sure we get it right.

Here's what we'll do. We'll get the two players most directly involved and send them to the center circle or to the foul line circle (whichever is closer) and we'll toss the ball in the air, and determine possession through an actual athletic endeavor, rather than my-turn, your-turn.

Not only does it solve the issue, we won't have listen to the holier-than-thou brigade, which thinks we should keep a play from 10 minutes earlier in our heads while presumably concentrating on what is happening in front of us.

Quarters?

Ball stuck in the rim?

Double foul while an unsuccessful try is in flight?

I'm with Rich even if these questions get answered, but they would need to be answered if you're going to go back to the archaic "jump ball" system.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

Quarters? Ball stuck in the rim? Double foul while an unsuccessful try is in flight?

Same thing that we did thirty years ago. Jump ball. Jump ball. Jump ball. Usually with any two opponents, usually the tallest, or the best jumpers. We may have had the double foulers jump against each other.

Maybe we should also start using basketballs with laces, go back to peach baskets, and wear black belts to hold our pants up?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

The jump ball is a horrible system.

And do more than just a few of you (not me, and rookies don't count) devote any more than a just few minutes of annual study to the various jump ball restrictions since we only see one (usually) of these every game? How many of us (including me) just sit back, as the umpire, and hope that nothing "weird" happens, or if something "weird" happens, it something very obvious, like a jumper tapping the ball on the way up?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by amusedofficial

We'll get the two players most directly involved and send them to the center circle or to the foul line circle and we'll toss the ball in the air, and determine possession through an actual athletic endeavor, rather than my-turn, your-turn.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.: Why are you posting under amusedofficial's username?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And do more than just a few of you (not me, and rookies don't count) devote any more than a just few minutes of annual study to the various jump ball restrictions since we only see one (usually) of these every game? How many of us (including me) just sit back, as the umpire, and hope that nothing "weird" happens, or if something "weird" happens, it something very obvious, like a jumper tapping the ball on the way up?

We don't obsess over the jump ball provisions. I know the rules quite well, but I'll admit that I'm in no hurry to blow back a marginal toss or even a marginal "got it on the way up" violation. Especially in regulation. The other team is going to get 2-of-the-next-3 after all. I don't say anything on a jump - I ask the captains if they're ready, hit my whistle, and toss the ball.

It used to aggravate me as a guard (back in the day) when I'd get in there and tie up a much taller player and be rewarded by having to jump against him. I had no chance. Why is *that* system fair?

(I liked the thinking when NCAAM (I think) experimented with giving the ball to the defense on every tie up, but then actual game play exposed worse issues in that system and they abandoned it.)

[APG]

Originally Posted by amusedofficial

I have a tremendous idea on how to avoid the arrow issues, and not have to suffer the gross indignity and mortal shame of changing rocks from one pocket to the other, unbuttoning pocket flaps, dealing with clueless table personnel, or chanting blue ball during every throw-in. Obviously such actions detract from our stature and we must never do such undignified things, even tough it makes it absolutely clear to everyone in the building that we're making sure we get it right.

Here's what we'll do. We'll get the two players most directly involved and send them to the center circle or to the foul line circle (whichever is closer) and we'll toss the ball in the air, and determine possession through an actual athletic endeavor, rather than my-turn, your-turn.

Not only does it solve the issue, we won't have listen to the holier-than-thou brigade, which thinks we should keep a play from 10 minutes earlier in our heads while presumably concentrating on what is happening in front of us.

For NCAA-M, I agree...for that 7th grade girls game? The arrow is a godsend.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

We don't obsess over the jump ball provisions. I know the rules quite well, but I'll admit that I'm in no hurry to blow back a marginal toss or even a marginal "got it on the way up" violation.

Oh. I'm not talking about those violations. Those are the easy, and obvious, ones. I'm talking about movement of the non jumpers, those on the circle (within three feet of the circle), and those off the circle (more than three feet away from the circle). Can either group move, and how can they move, when, or slightly before, the official is ready to toss? Can either group move, and how can they move, when the official is tossing? Can either group move, and how can they move, after the toss? Can either group move, and how can they move, after the tap? Can either group move, and when can they move, into an unoccupied space on the circle? Can either group move, and when can they move, into an occupied space on the circle? Can either group move, and when can the move, to within three feet behind an opponent?

Even some of the easy ones can be missed. I know a few officials, some veterans, that aren't 100% sure about two handed taps, and how many taps, by a single jumper, are legal. A few aren't 100% sure when all of these restrictions end.

Maybe these are easy questions on a written test (not for me, on a closed book test), but in a real game, when we may be the umpire only half of the time, and we only have a split second to make these calls? Maybe these calls end up being a mental coin toss? Wait? That gives me an idea.

[Refsmitty]

I use one - they come in very handy for time outs and who has the ball coming out as well!

Flip 58 Possession Switch - Special! - Referee Equimpent and Uniforms