That is what we are saying. It is a commonly misunderstood rule. But team control does not end just because the ball is tipped away. So if the team in control touches the ball before it goes over to the BC, and is then the first to touch the ball, BC violation is the result.

Peace

What are bugs found on Chuck's leg the day before the first frost of fall?

I'll take "Small Change" for 200 Alex...

It's not a tough call at all. It's the right call. There's no controversy.

You mean like "offensive foul"?

[/B][/QUOTE]LOL

They're all offensive- even the ones committed inside the "cylinder of verticality".

Yep, not tough at all. Team control remains with the team that last had player control until the ball either becomes dead or control is gained by the opposing team (OK, it also ends on a try, but that's not relevant in this situation). Simply batting or tipping the ball does not constitute gaining control.

Yep, not tough at all. Team control remains with the team that last had player control until the ball either becomes dead or control is gained by the opposing team (OK, it also ends on a try, but that's not relevant in this situation). Simply batting or tipping the ball does not constitute gaining control. [/QUOTE]

Yep, except that in this situation had B1 tapped it into the backcourt without A1 touching it. A1 could have gone back and retrieved the ball without have a violation called. B1 did not have to have gained control first.

What makes this backcourt is A1 was the last to touch it.

Yep, except that in this situation had B1 tapped it into the backcourt without A1 touching it. A1 could have gone back and retrieved the ball without have a violation called. B1 did not have to have gained control first.

What makes this backcourt is A1 was the last to touch it. [/QUOTE]

I don't get your point...it was clearly established in the original & subsequent post that the ball was tapped by B1, touched A1, then went into backcourt where it was first touched again by A. All 3 elements of backcourt violation are present...team control, last touched, first touched. My post was in response to that's a walk's misunderstanding of when team control ends - had nothing to do with who touched it where.....that was already a given.

Only a tough call if you don't know the rules, which is true for a great many of fans.

I don't get your point...it was clearly established in the original & subsequent post that the ball was tapped by B1, touched A1, then went into backcourt where it was first touched again by A. All 3 elements of backcourt violation are present...team control, last touched, first touched. My post was in response to that's a walk's misunderstanding of when team control ends - had nothing to do with who touched it where.....that was already a given. [/QUOTE]

My point was to make sure no one got confused about what you were saying. What you were saying is exactly true that team control was not lost when B touched it, but I wanted to make sure they understood that you were not saying that if B touched it last than A could not go get it.

In short just adding onto your statement as you were to Smitty. Sorry for the confussion.

I think joseph's comments help to clarify the situation for those people who don't necessarily know the rule (some of whom read these discussion threads...).

He just didn't want someone to walk away from this discussion, see a scenario under which B1 tips the ball away from A1 and into A1's backcourt (w/out touching any player on A), and think that a violation had occurred because there was still "team control."

Good job by the original officials (in situation 1), by this forum (in explaining why they were right), and again by this forum (in explaining why the original officials made an error in clearing the lanes when the period had not yet ended).

Thank you

The last to touch first to touch is something that I run through my head in these situations. I repeat in my head the colour that touched last (ie. white, white, white). And then if white is the team on offensive and they are the first to touch then it is a backcourt violation. If the defensive team (ie-Blue) touches first then I repeat no backcourt no backcourt in my head.

I find it really helps and allows for a quick decisive whistle without any delay time re-running the play in my head.

Huh? :confused: Line up the players for a free-throw and then give the ball to the other team oob?

Boomah said "second <b>made</b> free throw". That's absolutely correct. If the FT is made, the clock doesn't start. Ergo, you need the throw-in to get the last mini-tick off of the clock to get the horn. If the second FT is missed, the clock will start on a player touching the ball, and that also takes care of the last mini-tick to get the horn.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jan 31st, 2005 at 07:39 PM]

OK people. I stand corrected on my verbage. I apologize for the "ball control comment". I see after I see after I corrected myself the first time I repeated "ball control" again. Sorry. As far as the "tough call". I meant that just seeing the ball glance off the offensive player was tough. I understand, now, how the trail made the call he did. Thank you all for your insight. Player control..Team control... I'll get it right!!!!!