watching the basket as lead

I have been taught when a shot is taken, the lead should focus on the action in their area and not look at the basket. I do that generally, yet find myself sneaking a look at the rim out of the corner of my eye.

my question for you seasoned vets - should your focus be solely on the players battling for position in the lane, or should you be looking at the basket as well?

[JRutledge]

If you cannot see the basket from the lead, you probably are too close to the lane. When a shot goes up, I back away from the basket. Now I do not look up at the rim for the purposes to call a BI or GT call, but I might have to look up there or need to look up there to see contact. I work a lot of boy's basketball that is near or above the rim. I cannot afford to work that type of game and not have the ability to look up around the rim. If I do not look there, I am going to miss the contact with the arm and head and parts of the upper body if I do not have an angle close to the rim. Maybe if someone is working girl's basketball or JH boy's (and many of them can leap pretty high) games you cannot afford not to look up. But working with talent that can dunk or the big men in the lane that are well over 6'5 makes it difficult to not look near the rim.

Peace

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by MPLAHE
I have been taught when a shot is taken, the lead should focus on the action in their area and not look at the basket. I do that generally, yet find myself sneaking a look at the rim out of the corner of my eye.

my question for you seasoned vets - should your focus be solely on the players battling for position in the lane, or should you be looking at the basket as well?

Generally, we're told not to look up as lead. I do try to sneak at least one peak, though, because if the shot goes, my next move is different than if the shot doesn't. Looking for a second helps me keep better positioning. However, I try to keep my concentration on the bodies banging underneath. And, I've been instructed to peek with eyeballs only, and not put my head up. That way it appears as though I'm more concerned about the players than the ball, which in this situation is a good thing.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by MPLAHE
I have been taught when a shot is taken, the lead should focus on the action in their area and not look at the basket. I do that generally, yet find myself sneaking a look at the rim out of the corner of my eye.

my question for you seasoned vets - should your focus be solely on the players battling for position in the lane, or should you be looking at the basket as well?

My trail (and center if it's 3-person) have rim area responsibilities so I don't look up. However, as lead you should back out towards the sideline a bit on a shot attempt which will widen your view and you'll have peripheral vision of the rim anyway.

Z

[Ref Daddy]

This is a hard one for me: As Trail protecting the shooter and also monitoring rim action. Hard to do without real quick eyes..... and if you miss either one - look out.

You have a three point shooter getting slapped or a rim rocking (or both). These are two things everyone in the gym see's too.

Practice and concentration.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by JRutledge
If you cannot see the basket from the lead, you probably are too close to the lane. When a shot goes up, I back away from the basket. Now I do not look up at the rim for the purposes to call a BI or GT call, but I might have to look up there or need to look up there to see contact. I work a lot of boy's basketball that is near or above the rim. I cannot afford to work that type of game and not have the ability to look up around the rim. If I do not look there, I am going to miss the contact with the arm and head and parts of the upper body if I do not have an angle close to the rim. Maybe if someone is working girl's basketball or JH boy's (and many of them can leap pretty high) games you cannot afford not to look up. But working with talent that can dunk or the big men in the lane that are well over 6'5 makes it difficult to not look near the rim.

Peace

This is good advice.

When they say "don't look at the rim" they do not mean "do not be aware of what's going on around the rim". I will add there are times when the L does need to focus in on what's going on in the paint under the rim completely but generally you should have an idea of what's going on above you to anticipate where the next action will be.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

This is good advice.

When they say "don't look at the rim" they do not mean "do not be aware of what's going on around the rim". I will add there are times when the L does need to focus in on what's going on in the paint under the rim completely but generally you should have an idea of what's going on above you to anticipate where the next action will be.

I worked a game last season where one of the teams had a 6'10" center. 2-whistle. Center went up to block a shot CLEARLY on it's way down. From the trail position it didn't look like the ball was touched, but I had a better angle and saw the GT. I made the call as the lead and nobody said a word. Imagine if I had passed on it....

While I agree that the trail needs to work hard to get goaltending/BI and it's his primary responsibility, the more important thing in this situation is that SOMEONE gets it if it happens. The game will self-destruct quickly if we worry more about how it looks for the lead to make such a call and NOBODY calls it.

Something similar happened to me about 10 years ago -- ball brushed a support wire above the basket and (as the trail) I missed it -- I was watching some rough rebounding play and wasn't watching the ball closely enough to make the call. Partner called nothing. I ended up swallowing a bunch of crap and then had my partner tell me in the locker room he saw the ball hit the wire.

Now part of my pregame is that we discuss goaltend/BI/support wires and we agree that someone will get it, even if it happens to be the lead seeing it via peripheral vision. The game is more important than being accused once a year of fishing outside your pond.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

I worked a game last season where one of the teams had a 6'10" center. 2-whistle. Center went up to block a shot CLEARLY on it's way down. From the trail position it didn't look like the ball was touched, but I had a better angle and saw the GT. I made the call as the lead and nobody said a word. Imagine if I had passed on it....

While I agree that the trail needs to work hard to get goaltending/BI and it's his primary responsibility, the more important thing in this situation is that SOMEONE gets it if it happens. The game will self-destruct quickly if we worry more about how it looks for the lead to make such a call and NOBODY calls it.

Something similar happened to me about 10 years ago -- ball brushed a support wire above the basket and (as the trail) I missed it -- I was watching some rough rebounding play and wasn't watching the ball closely enough to make the call. Partner called nothing. I ended up swallowing a bunch of crap and then had my partner tell me in the locker room he saw the ball hit the wire.

Now part of my pregame is that we discuss goaltend/BI/support wires and we agree that someone will get it, even if it happens to be the lead seeing it via peripheral vision. The game is more important than being accused once a year of fishing outside your pond.

I don't buy that. I'm all for "getting it right" but I think that the lead looking up is more risk than it's worth. It's far more important for the lead to be watching the rebounding action than helping the lead on a goaltend or support wire call (by the way, the support wire is WAY up there and I can't think of a time when the lead should ever see that). Even in a 2-person game, most of the time the trail should be able to stay with shooter and still release in time to see goaltend or basket interference (and support wire issues) in time.

Even in an athletic boys game, how many goaltends or basket interference calls are there? But there is potential for overagressive rebounding action (that can lead to trouble) almost every shot right? As lead, just back out as wide as you can. Maybe in a 2-person game, you can get wide enough to help the trail on a real obvious call just through your peripheral vision, but you shouldn't look up (besides, the trail shouldn't need any help on the obvious ones).

I was sitting next to a buddy of mine who is a state tournament evaluator watching a game last year and the trail didn't notice that the ball bounced up and hit the support wire. His only comment was, "the officials are both doing a good job of watching off ball aren't they?."

Z

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by zebraman

I don't buy that. I'm all for "getting it right" but I think that the lead looking up is more risk than it's worth. It's far more important for the lead to be watching the rebounding action than helping the lead on a goaltend or support wire call (by the way, the support wire is WAY up there and I can't think of a time when the lead should ever see that). Even in a 2-person game, most of the time the trail should be able to stay with shooter and still release in time to see goaltend or basket interference (and support wire issues) in time.

Even in an athletic boys game, how many goaltends or basket interference calls are there? But there is potential for overagressive rebounding action (that can lead to trouble) almost every shot right? As lead, just back out as wide as you can. Maybe in a 2-person game, you can get wide enough to help the trail on a real obvious call just through your peripheral vision, but you shouldn't look up (besides, the trail shouldn't need any help on the obvious ones).

I was sitting next to a buddy of mine who is a state tournament evaluator watching a game last year and the trail didn't notice that the ball bounced up and hit the support wire. His only comment was, "the officials are both doing a good job of watching off ball aren't they?."

Z

You obviously did not read a single word of these 3 posts.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by zebraman

I don't buy that. I'm all for "getting it right" but I think that the lead looking up is more risk than it's worth. It's far more important for the lead to be watching the rebounding action than helping the lead on a goaltend or support wire call (by the way, the support wire is WAY up there and I can't think of a time when the lead should ever see that). Even in a 2-person game, most of the time the trail should be able to stay with shooter and still release in time to see goaltend or basket interference (and support wire issues) in time.

I am not buying what you are saying. Rebounding action is not so close to the floor that you cannot see the rim. If you have some big players, you are not looking at the floor.

Originally posted by zebraman
Even in an athletic boys game, how many goaltends or basket interference calls are there? But there is potential for overagressive rebounding action (that can lead to trouble) almost every shot right? As lead, just back out as wide as you can. Maybe in a 2-person game, you can get wide enough to help the trail on a real obvious call just through your peripheral vision, but you shouldn't look up (besides, the trail shouldn't need any help on the obvious ones).

Well I am not looking at the rim for BI and GT calls. Those are usually looking way above the rim to even make those calls. But I am going to have to see arms and contact that is near the rim. The Trail cannot make all those calls in either 2 person or 3 person games.

Then again, we are all taught to do different things.

Peace

[zebraman]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

You obviously did not read a single word of these 3 posts.

Actually I did. You obviously are suffering from caffeine withdrawal this morning.

My point is merely that it's more important for the lead to get the rebounding action and miss a support wire call than to look up to get the support wire call and miss rebounding action. I get real wide as lead on a shot attempt, but I don't see how I could ever see the support wire if I'm watching what I'm supposed to.

Z

[zebraman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge
I am not buying what you are saying. Rebounding action is not so close to the floor that you cannot see the rim. If you have some big players, you are not looking at the floor.



You might catch some BI or goaltend action, but the only support wires I have ever seen are above the backboard and I don't know how you could justify the lead seeing that.


Well I am not looking at the rim for BI and GT calls. Those are usually looking way above the rim to even make those calls. But I am going to have to see arms and contact that is near the rim. The Trail cannot make all those calls in either 2 person or 3 person games.


I agree.


Z

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by zebraman


Actually I did. You obviously are suffering from caffeine withdrawal this morning.

My point is merely that it's more important for the lead to get the rebounding action and miss a support wire call than to look up to get the support wire call and miss rebounding action. I get real wide as lead on a shot attempt, but I don't see how I could ever see the support wire if I'm watching what I'm supposed to.

Z

I am starting to agree with Dan here. No one said anything about looking at the ball hitting the support wire. Looking up at the rim is a little different than looking at where the ball goes up over the backboard.

I can tell by your response you did not read any of the posts.

Peace

[zebraman]

Originally posted by JRutledge

I am starting to agree with Dan here. No one said anything about looking at the ball hitting the support wire. Looking up at the rim is a little different than looking at where the ball goes up over the backboard.

I can tell by your response you did not read any of the posts.

Peace

Sigh. If you read Rich's post, you'll see that he mentions the support wire. His partner (apparently lead) did see the ball hit the wire. Rich missed it as trail. Not that big of a deal in the scheme of things. I'd rather have the lead watching the rebounding than looking up at the support wire. Now go have your little tea party with Dan.

Z

[JRutledge]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zebraman

Originally posted by JRutledge



Sigh. If you read Rich's post, you'll see that he mentions the support wire. His partner (apparently lead) did see the ball hit the wire. Rich missed it as trail. Not that big of a deal in the scheme of things. I'd rather have the lead watching the rebounding than looking up at the support wire. Now go have your little tea party with Dan.

Z

Rich was disagreeing with the common wisdom in this post. Challenge Rich on what he said. But that has nothing to do with the comments that everyone else that advocated looking at the rim said. Looking at the rim and looking at the supports are two different things.

Peace