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Wed Jan 26, 2005, 05:13pm
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JVB; Team A has only 5 players.
2nd qtr - A2 intentionally fouls opponent. Coach A pulls player. Coach A tells me he'll play with 4. I think, "Hmmmm." I offer, "Is this disciplinary Coach?" Coach A, "Yes". I called partner and we discussed it. Then we went to Coach B and discussed it. All parties agreed to let the kid sit. Further, we, Team B and partner, agreed not to penalize Team A if A2 should return, but that additional attention would be on A2. Only then, did we continue. A2 returned to begin the 3rd qtr. without penalty or problem. It kinda felt like 2-3. mick 
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Wed Jan 26, 2005, 05:22pm
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By rule, the player should have stayed on the
playing floor. By common sense and game management (by you), the way you handled the situation is only known by the personnel at the site. (and now by everyone who reads this).
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Wed Jan 26, 2005, 05:54pm
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I don't feel like reading my Rules Book right now, but does 2-3 state that if there is 5 to put on the floor, put 5 out there?
Otherwise play with 4 the rest of the game?
__________________
"A picture is worth a thousand words".
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Wed Jan 26, 2005, 06:06pm
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Rule 2-3 The referee shall make decisions on any points not specifically covered in the rules.
Rule 3-1 Each team consists of five players... Note A team must begin the game with five players, but if it has no substitutes to replace disqualified or injured players, it must continue with fewer than five. When there is only one player participating for a team, the team shall forfeit the game, unless the refereee believes that team has an opportunity to win the game.
__________________
"There are no superstar calls. We don't root for certain teams. We don't cheat. But sometimes we just miss calls." - Joe Crawford
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Wed Jan 26, 2005, 06:15pm
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"Coach, unless you're telling me 23 is injured, he needs to come in."
"He's not injured, but I'm not playing him." "Coach, if you tell me 23 is injured, you can play with 4." "He's injured."
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
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Wed Jan 26, 2005, 06:25pm
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Sorry, I was assuming Mick was referring to 3-1. There I go assuming again!
On my defense, I did say I didn't feel like reading my Rules Book!
__________________
"A picture is worth a thousand words".
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Wed Jan 26, 2005, 08:50pm
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Quote:
I would not encourage him to tell me an untruth, even if all participants had not likely seen the act. There was a point in the exchange where, I believe, the coach thought "T' heck with it", and would have actually pulled his players and forfeited if I forced him to play A2. (Note to self - What would I have done then? Is paperwork involved? Oh, my! I dunno.) mick
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Wed Jan 26, 2005, 09:39pm
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Quote:
3.1.1
__________________
"To win the game is great. To play the game is greater. But to love the game is the greatest of all."
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Wed Jan 26, 2005, 09:45pm
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Quote:
"Hoosiers" was a movie. By rule, Coach Norman Dale would have to put Rade Butchar back in the game.
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Thu Jan 27, 2005, 12:59am
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Yes, the kid MUST play, despite the coach's desire to bench him. I'm sure that Bushref wouldn't agree with this either.
 If the team refuses to comply with 3-1-1, you go to 5-4-1 because this makes a travesty of the game. Rule 5 Scoring and Timing Regulations SECTION 4 FORFEITURE, PROTEST, INTERRUPTED GAME ART. 1 . . . The referee shall forfeit the game if a team refuses to play after being instructed to do so by any official. The referee may also forfeit a game if any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions or other acts which make a travesty of the game. If the team to which the game is forfeited is ahead, the score at the time of forfeiture shall stand. If this team is not ahead, the score shall be recorded as 2-0 in its favor.
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Thu Jan 27, 2005, 11:09am
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Quote:
In this case, however, the coach did this very quitely, with no fanfare, but with decorum. He was trying to make the game better. mick
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Thu Jan 27, 2005, 02:29pm
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3.3.1 provides only that a team consists of 5 players and that 5 must start the game. No penalty is provided for not continuing with 5 after the game starts. In order to create a penalty situation, the official must find something else to apply here. It appears as if the "travesty" rule is the rule of choice. However, travesty is very subjective and in the eye of the beholder. If anyone can find a penalty for 3.1.1, please provide it.
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Thu Jan 27, 2005, 04:10pm
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Glancing through the rulebook, it seems that the only legal way to remove a player from the game is via substitution. An injury, disqualification, or ejection require a substitute by rule. So one could say that the coach has no legal way of removing the player under discussion.
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