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Old Mon Jan 24, 2005, 04:08pm
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Working rec games with my son on Saturday (he is just starting) and I want to see if you think I gave some bad advice on a couple of situations. We were calling 4th grade level games (read “herd ball”) so I was able to “expand my zone” a few times and look for things to use a teaching moments (since if the ball was not within reach of a player they were just standing still and watching the game).

Sit. 1 – A2 and B1 are side-by-side (there is a little gap between them), rebound is coming toward them. B1 reaches his arm out, and slightly of his left, to tap the ball away. Just then A2, reaching slightly to his right, grabs the ball, pulls his arms in and turns to his left. However, when he did this he pinned B1’s arm between his arm and torso. Thus when he turned, B1 was pulled around A2 and (as you can imagine) caused A2 to stumble. He called a hold on A2. While technically A2 was “holding” B1, I told him that most of the time he would see that called as a foul on B.

Sit. 2 – A1 steals the ball in B’s backcourt and starts driving toward the basket. B2 takes a position at the edge of the lane and prepares to take the charge. When A1 is getting ready to make contact, B2 takes a little step back and starts to recoil (clearly before the contact). My son called a block on B2. I will state categorically that if it was high school varsity I would hold the position that B bailed too soon and blocked A1 in his attempt and make the same call he made. However, I told him that at this age level he should be a little more giving and allow a 10 year old to still draw the charge even though he “recoiled” a tad early.

Do you agree or disagree with these assessments? My concern now is that I probably should have kept quite and kept the focus on things like communication, position, mechanics, and (from my position) what appeared to be interpretation errors.

One more week at this age before the assignor moves us to grades 6/7 games…not a lot more skill, but not always herd ball.
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Old Mon Jan 24, 2005, 04:13pm
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I would have to disagree with your analysis that "recoiling" makes it a blocking foul at the HS level...why would that be true? Once the defender has established legal guarding position, they can be moving - as long as they are not moving into the ball-handler...so moving backwards to cushion the blow is certainly ok...
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Old Mon Jan 24, 2005, 04:22pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by LarryS


Sit. 2 – A1 steals the ball in B’s backcourt and starts driving toward the basket. B2 takes a position at the edge of the lane and prepares to take the charge. When A1 is getting ready to make contact, B2 takes a little step back and starts to recoil (clearly before the contact). My son called a block on B2. I will state categorically that if it was high school varsity I would hold the position that B bailed too soon and blocked A1 in his attempt and make the same call he made.
Agree with Rocky. Why would that become a block at the high school level? The defender is allowed to protect himself and he's still got a legal guarding position. It's a charge at all levels if the contact is on the defender's torso.
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Old Mon Jan 24, 2005, 04:23pm
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I disagree with both of your interpretations.

Did B1 illegally contact A1 BEFORE A1 pinned his arm? Where in the rules does it say you can pin another player's arm and any subsequent contact is on the "held" player?

The defender with LGP may recoil and still take a charge, that is the rule.
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Old Mon Jan 24, 2005, 04:33pm
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You know...now that I think about Sit. 2 more I have to disagree with myself. You are right...as long as he isn't moving into the path of A1 he was fine. I would have called a PC foul if it were my call anyway, just explained it very poorly. Do I get partial credit for having the right call and a lousy class lecture?

On the first one...I guess my reasoning is that I have seen that called on B in the past. It was explained to me that if B had been even with A he would not have had his arm pinned. Therefore he had to be a little behind A and was "reaching around" when contact occured. Maybe it was a poor excuse when given to me.

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Old Mon Jan 24, 2005, 04:36pm
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The first situation is tricky but I can't see calling a foul on A2 in any situation. If A2 could get away without traveling/falling i'd probably just let it go. If not, I'd probably have to call B1 for the hold.

In situation 2, always a PC foul.
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Old Mon Jan 24, 2005, 06:48pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maverick
The first situation is tricky but I can't see calling a foul on A2 in any situation. If A2 could get away without traveling/falling i'd probably just let it go. If not, I'd probably have to call B1 for the hold.
I don't see how it could be a hold on B1. B1's arm is pinned between A2's arm and torso. Sounds like a hold on A2 to me. What is B1 holding?!?!
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Old Mon Jan 24, 2005, 08:24pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Maverick
The first situation is tricky but I can't see calling a foul on A2 in any situation. If A2 could get away without traveling/falling i'd probably just let it go. If not, I'd probably have to call B1 for the hold.
I don't see how it could be a hold on B1. B1's arm is pinned between A2's arm and torso. Sounds like a hold on A2 to me. What is B1 holding?!?!
It's nothing. Even at the level we're discussing.
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Old Mon Jan 24, 2005, 08:56pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Maverick
The first situation is tricky but I can't see calling a foul on A2 in any situation. If A2 could get away without traveling/falling i'd probably just let it go. If not, I'd probably have to call B1 for the hold.
I don't see how it could be a hold on B1. B1's arm is pinned between A2's arm and torso. Sounds like a hold on A2 to me. What is B1 holding?!?!
It's nothing. Even at the level we're discussing.
Agree, unless B2 then tries to use excessive force to get his arm free, or A2 decides to pin his arm to keep it there. Iow, just let 'em disentangle. I saw something somewhere on this play but I can't remember where.
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