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-   -   Foul Count (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/17829-foul-count.html)

refnrev Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:29pm

What do you say to coaches who constantly remind you of a lopsided foul count. In two games the past week home team plays a deliberate slow down game. They pass the ball around the perimeter a lot. One one possession they took 1:30 off the clock. The more aggressive teams get frustrated and are often late getting to the ball and "hack" the passer, hold the man driving back door or the cutter going to the hoop, trip the cutter, etc. Home team plays a laid back defense so they don't foul much. Visiting coaches keep throwing the foul count at us. I just ignore it, until it gets personal then "Whack!" How do you respond to those comments?

Hotlink501 Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:42pm

I usually tell the coach the only thing the foul count means to me is his team needs to start playing fundamental ball and quit slapping and grabbing. Also, you might try telling him that the foul count shows who the more aggressive of the two teams are and thats why they are getting more fouls called against them. See if either of these work for you.

ChrisSportsFan Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:20pm

It's always helpful if he's up by 10, then you can congratulate him on coaching his kids to be aggressive since that's what they used to build the lead.

BktBallRef Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:24pm

"Coach, you're not insinuating that we're cheating are you?"

Of course, the best thing is to simply say, "I've heard enough."

tjones1 Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:58am

Yeah I see what you're saying BktBallRef, cause if you ask that...and he/she says yes... well that's probably going to result into a T.

JRutledge Sat Jan 22, 2005 01:34am

"Coach, I call them. I do not count them."

Peace

imaref Sat Jan 22, 2005 01:36am

refnrev....

Dependent on the rapport you have with the coach...you simply explain to him that as an official, you don't "count" fouls...."by Rule"...you just call them. ;)

Good luck!

wl

p.s. cheez....I guess I don't type as fast as JR!

[Edited by imaref on Jan 22nd, 2005 at 01:38 AM]

Snake~eyes Sat Jan 22, 2005 02:04am

I don't seewhat is with coaches and foul counts, since when do foul counts have to be equal? Just looking for an excuse to complain.

stripes Sat Jan 22, 2005 09:47am

Quote:

Originally posted by tjones1
Yeah I see what you're saying BktBallRef, cause if you ask that...and he/she says yes... well that's probably going to result into a T.
Not probably, definitely. I always ask them what they mean by the comment and when they repeat that the foul count is lopsided so I ask them if they mean we are cheating against them (which is what I beleive they are getting at--we call fouls against them, but not for them). When they say yes, T them (only the really dumb coach will ever say you are cheating), if they say no, ask them what they are saying. When they point out the foul differental, I say, "you already pointed that out." Never had the conversation go past that, ever.

PA Official Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:53pm

Stripes, I disagree with that conversation. You essentially are baiting a coach into a "T" there. Coaches are competitors and they get emotional, and somethings that come out of their mouths are inappropriate and deserve a technical. But to take an emotional coach in an obvious emotional state and bait a comment out of him is straight WRONG. Either pin him or drop it, but don't drag something out of someone.

buckrog64 Sat Jan 22, 2005 01:35pm

Like points, fouls are normally earned by a team. A ref can't magically add 10 points to the scoreboard like he shouldn't add three or four more team fouls to 'even' things up. If people would just pay attention, they would see the reason teams fouls differ so much. They are biased, however, and it just gives them one more thing to whine about. How many of us had 7 on one team and 2 on the other, in the first half, and had the reverse in the second half. The whining then usually moves throughout the gym, doesn't it?

buckrog64 Sat Jan 22, 2005 01:37pm

Like points, fouls are normally earned by a team. A ref can't magically add 10 points to the scoreboard like he shouldn't add three or four more team fouls to 'even' things up. If people would just pay attention, they would see the reason team fouls differ so much. They are biased, however, and it just gives them one more thing to whine about. How many of us had 7 on one team and 2 on the other, in the first half, and had the reverse in the second half. The whining then usually moves throughout the gym, doesn't it?

BktBallRef Sat Jan 22, 2005 01:52pm

Quote:

Originally posted by PA Official
Stripes, I disagree with that conversation. You essentially are baiting a coach into a "T" there.
No, you aren't. You're pointing out to the coach that he's accusing you of cheating, questioning your integrity. I'm not going to stick him in that situation. I'm simply bringing him back into focus on what he's saying. No matter what his answer, my next statement is "Okay, coach, I've heard enough."

Dan_ref Sat Jan 22, 2005 02:16pm


IMO it depends on how it's said and by whom. If a coach calmly mentions this to me I might nod, hell I might find one for him if I think he might be right. If he's got that wildman look in his eyes or he's screaming about calling it both ways I'll just tell him his team needs to adjust to how the game is being called or if I'm in a pissy mood I'll tell him it's a coaching issue not a reffing issue. Some folks use the "are you sayin' I'm cheating?" comment, I don't.

BigJoe Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:26pm

Player:"Do you realize the fouls are 8 to 1?"

Me:"Oh, yeah, your team better quit fouling or it will be 12-1"

Player: "Oh, yeah, you're right."

Coaches, I don't have to explain foul counts. If you do, they are just being coaches. How any coach who presses and hacks on the perimeter can expect to have the same number of fouls as a team that plays half court offense and defense, is a moron. Or else they just think they can work you for phantom fouls on the other team or non-calls for his own. Most officials have a comeback for this crack from a coach. Talk to veteran officials in your area or assoc.

Good luck.


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