What do you say to coaches who constantly remind you of a lopsided foul count. In two games the past week home team plays a deliberate slow down game. They pass the ball around the perimeter a lot. One one possession they took 1:30 off the clock. The more aggressive teams get frustrated and are often late getting to the ball and "hack" the passer, hold the man driving back door or the cutter going to the hoop, trip the cutter, etc. Home team plays a laid back defense so they don't foul much. Visiting coaches keep throwing the foul count at us. I just ignore it, until it gets personal then "Whack!" How do you respond to those comments?

I usually tell the coach the only thing the foul count means to me is his team needs to start playing fundamental ball and quit slapping and grabbing. Also, you might try telling him that the foul count shows who the more aggressive of the two teams are and thats why they are getting more fouls called against them. See if either of these work for you.

It's always helpful if he's up by 10, then you can congratulate him on coaching his kids to be aggressive since that's what they used to build the lead.

"Coach, you're not insinuating that we're cheating are you?"

Of course, the best thing is to simply say, "I've heard enough."

Yeah I see what you're saying BktBallRef, cause if you ask that...and he/she says yes... well that's probably going to result into a T.

"Coach, I call them. I do not count them."

Peace

refnrev....

Dependent on the rapport you have with the coach...you simply explain to him that as an official, you don't "count" fouls...."by Rule"...you just call them. ;)

Good luck!

wl

p.s. cheez....I guess I don't type as fast as JR!

[Edited by imaref on Jan 22nd, 2005 at 01:38 AM]

I don't seewhat is with coaches and foul counts, since when do foul counts have to be equal? Just looking for an excuse to complain.

Not probably, definitely. I always ask them what they mean by the comment and when they repeat that the foul count is lopsided so I ask them if they mean we are cheating against them (which is what I beleive they are getting at--we call fouls against them, but not for them). When they say yes, T them (only the really dumb coach will ever say you are cheating), if they say no, ask them what they are saying. When they point out the foul differental, I say, "you already pointed that out." Never had the conversation go past that, ever.

Stripes, I disagree with that conversation. You essentially are baiting a coach into a "T" there. Coaches are competitors and they get emotional, and somethings that come out of their mouths are inappropriate and deserve a technical. But to take an emotional coach in an obvious emotional state and bait a comment out of him is straight WRONG. Either pin him or drop it, but don't drag something out of someone.

Like points, fouls are normally earned by a team. A ref can't magically add 10 points to the scoreboard like he shouldn't add three or four more team fouls to 'even' things up. If people would just pay attention, they would see the reason teams fouls differ so much. They are biased, however, and it just gives them one more thing to whine about. How many of us had 7 on one team and 2 on the other, in the first half, and had the reverse in the second half. The whining then usually moves throughout the gym, doesn't it?

Like points, fouls are normally earned by a team. A ref can't magically add 10 points to the scoreboard like he shouldn't add three or four more team fouls to 'even' things up. If people would just pay attention, they would see the reason team fouls differ so much. They are biased, however, and it just gives them one more thing to whine about. How many of us had 7 on one team and 2 on the other, in the first half, and had the reverse in the second half. The whining then usually moves throughout the gym, doesn't it?

No, you aren't. You're pointing out to the coach that he's accusing you of cheating, questioning your integrity. I'm not going to stick him in that situation. I'm simply bringing him back into focus on what he's saying. No matter what his answer, my next statement is "Okay, coach, I've heard enough."

IMO it depends on how it's said and by whom. If a coach calmly mentions this to me I might nod, hell I might find one for him if I think he might be right. If he's got that wildman look in his eyes or he's screaming about calling it both ways I'll just tell him his team needs to adjust to how the game is being called or if I'm in a pissy mood I'll tell him it's a coaching issue not a reffing issue. Some folks use the "are you sayin' I'm cheating?" comment, I don't.

Player:"Do you realize the fouls are 8 to 1?"

Me:"Oh, yeah, your team better quit fouling or it will be 12-1"

Player: "Oh, yeah, you're right."

Coaches, I don't have to explain foul counts. If you do, they are just being coaches. How any coach who presses and hacks on the perimeter can expect to have the same number of fouls as a team that plays half court offense and defense, is a moron. Or else they just think they can work you for phantom fouls on the other team or non-calls for his own. Most officials have a comeback for this crack from a coach. Talk to veteran officials in your area or assoc.

Good luck.

I worked 3rd and 4th grade youth games today, pretty funny after my Friday night thread, but anyway...

We call a foul, an OBVIOUS foul, in a string of obvious fouls, and the table informs us it's now a 1 and 1. The fouler's coach hears this and asked for the foul count, after the table tells him he says, "Hey refs it's 7-0." The assistant coach says, "7-0, come on refs."

I say," And that means what?" Very loudly, with a bit of a glare in their direction. Nothing else from either coach, but a Dad says, "It means you are not being fair." It was all I could do to not laugh at the moron.

BJV friday night-two very good teams-well played fast paced game--in first half the foul count was 7 home 0 visitors--first time that has every happened in a game I officiated. Though it seemed wierd there was not one comment from the coaches or fans. It was clear that the visiting team did not foul.

Second half was different with both teams fouling. No idea what count was in second half as it is not something i focus on at all.

What are you trying to accomplish by asking a coach, "And that means what?" with a glare attatched? Sure, it may be a way of quieting him down, but it sure isn't preventive officiating. You are leading him to a comment that will ultimately automatically result in a technical foul.

A comment about the foul count is not stepping over the line. Its a comment we've all heard before, almost come to expect, and as previously stated in this thread, have a rational explanation for. To come back at a coach who is obviously disgusted and/or frustrated with his team and/or the game with a comment that could and probably will lead to a statement more slanderous is not what we should be doing. The situation should first try to be difused, not escalated, which is what you are doing.

How many games do you have where the first half ends up 9-2 for fouls, and the second half is 3-8?

I get a couple every tournament.

Fwiw, a comment about the foul count is stepping over my own personal line. I don't tolerate or put up with comments like that. I put an end to them immediately, one way or another.

It's a 3rd grade youth coach, that means it's a kid's Dad.

That is a direct attack on our integrity, so he has ALREADY gone past, WAY past, a regular warning. Another comment even close to that level is getting him tossed and not just T'd.

The situation WAS difused, he stopped worrying about the foul count and started doing what he was out there to do, COACH. His kids played better from that point, and actually came back and won.

"That means what," with that look, made both coaches realize EXACTLY where they went, MUCH better than a generic, "That's enough coach."

I guess whacking the head coach and the assistant coach, him losing the box, and the other team shooting 5 or 6 free throws and getting the ball back would have been MUCH better for the game.;)

Tell him "Coach tell your team to stop fouling".

foul count
 

im sorry but if i were coaching and you responded to me that way i would have taken it to be very unproffessional of you. you may go home and talk to your kids that way and glare at them that way but it certainly would not have intimidated me as it may your kids. you had better stay at 3rd and 4th levels because a good varsity coach will have you for lunch

Re: foul count
 

I seem to be doing just fine in all my varsity games this season, including a rivalry game featuring the #1 boys team in the state, the night before this 3rd/4th grade youth game.

Telling a coach to sit down and stut up is unprofessional, letting them know you are not going to allow them to question you and your partner's integrity WITHOUT having to T either coach, and without further problems in the game, is called GAME MANAGMENT.;)

I have to disagree. When a coach or player is making a comment about the foul count, then they are questioning your integrity or ability. Usually officials either do not address it or they can T them up. It is not our job to explain why the foul count is the way it is. Coaches never seem ask you about when the foul count is in their favor. This should not be tolerated or accepted. I have no problem with officials challenging a coach for their comments. If a coach said anything that was questioning their integrity, I would not have a problem with an official making a comment. We have to stop feeling like we cannot talk to coaches when they step out of line.

Peace

Wow! Are you that sure about that?

Re: foul count
 

You're just full of $hit, aren't you? :D

BZ gives as good as he gets. I can't imagine any coach having him for lunch. I know who'll get the last word. :)

Re: Re: foul count
 

Isn't it always the one in stripes with the whistle?

Wait, that sounds like I'm on a power trip, and that would be REALLY unprofessional.:D