dribler forces contact

[zanzibar]

A1 is running and dribbling. B1 is running alongside A1. A1 initiates the contact by forcing himself into B1 as they are running. There is enough contact that a foul should be called. My partner says foul on B1 for not having legal guarding position. Who is the foul on?

[Smitty]

It depends. You really can't expect people to make a call based on that description. You have to see the whole play and make a judgement from there. This is just too generic.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by zanzibar
A1 is running and dribbling. B1 is running alongside A1. A1 initiates the contact by forcing himself into B1 as they are running. There is enough contact that a foul should be called. My partner says foul on B1 for not having legal guarding position. Who is the foul on?

Your partner needs to study up on the rules. This is PC. If B1 is running alongside, and has been the whole time, she's got legal guarding position. A1 can't play through B1. Is there any situation where your partner WOULD call a PC foul?

[cmathews]

if A1 initiates the contact and there is a foul called then it is on A1 time and space is of no consequence when A1 has the ball, so the fact that A1 changed his direction to "force" himself into B1 means that B1 did indeed get to the spot first...

[SamIAm]

I see a block on B1. Your discription does not include LGP or I need to be re-educated on LGP.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by zanzibar
A1 is running and dribbling. B1 is running alongside A1. A1 initiates the contact by forcing himself into B1 as they are running. There is enough contact that a foul should be called. My partner says foul on B1 for not having legal guarding position. Who is the foul on?

This is a player control foul on A1. Yes, B1 is not in a legal guarding position, but is effecting a legal moving screen against A1. A1 cannot move into B1.

MTD, Sr.

[WyMike]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

This is a player control foul on A1. Yes, B1 is not in a legal guarding position, but is effecting a legal moving screen against A1. A1 cannot move into B1.

MTD, Sr.

If B1 is in front of A1 instead of alongside A1 when contact is initiated by A1 dribbling the ball, this is no longer a legal moving screen, but a block, isn't it?

[Smitty]

How can any of you say with certainty what the call would be based on the description in the initial post? This kind of thing causes more confusion than anything as there always seems to be at least two different "visions" of the play when it is described so vaguely.

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by WyMike

If B1 is in front of A1 instead of alongside A1 when contact is initiated by A1 dribbling the ball, this is no longer a legal Moving">moving screen, but a block, isn't it?

OK, I'm confused now! Yeh I know , not hard to do.

[Adam]

If A1 is following B1 and runs B1 over, it's a PC on A1. you can't penalize B1 for not running away fast enough.

[Smitty]

All the original post said was that A1 initiated contact with B1. You don't know if A1 drove into B1's oustretched arm, or his leg, or his torso. Without seeing the play, you can't possibly make this call based on the information provided.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Smitty
All the original post said was that A1 initiated contact with B1. You don't know if A1 drove into B1's oustretched arm, or his leg, or his torso. Without seeing the play, you can't possibly make this call based on the information provided.

When the original post-er said "A1 initiated contact", I was assuming contact in the torso. If the contact is in the torso, front, back, or side of torso, and contact was initiated by dribbler, it's PC no matter what else might be going on.

Smitty, you're right that if contact is on defender's outstretched arm, it's probably not PC, but I may not call a block either if dribbler plays through.

The rest of you folks need to study 10-6 and it's associated case plays.

[WyMike]

Alright this will sound stupid but I'm reading the rule book under 10-6-1, 2, & 3 and it never mentions a dribbler or ball handler in Art. 3 concerning screens. Is it possible to actually screen a dribbler?

In the notes section under Art. 3 it goes on to state when a guard moves into the path of a dribbler and contact occurs, either player may be responsible for the contact. But the greater responsibility is on the dribbler if the guard conforms to the following principles - guard must be in guarding position with both feet on the floor and facing the dribbler.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by WyMike
If B1 is in front of A1 instead of alongside A1 when contact is initiated by A1 dribbling the ball, this is no longer a legal moving screen, but a block, isn't it?

That's a completely different play. That's a block.

Originally posted by Smitty
How can any of you say with certainty what the call would be based on the description in the initial post? This kind of thing causes more confusion than anything as there always seems to be at least two different "visions" of the play when it is described so vaguely.

That's true of many plays that are posted here. It's just discussion, Smitty, based on what each of us visualizes.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jan 19th, 2005 at 03:04 PM]

[cmathews]

Originally posted by Smitty
All the original post said was that A1 initiated contact with B1. You don't know if A1 drove into B1's oustretched arm, or his leg, or his torso. Without seeing the play, you can't possibly make this call based on the information provided.

Smitty,
I based my comments on the original post saying that A1 initiated the contact and that a foul needed to be called....