Back to the ball

zanzibar · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 11:01am

B2 is just standing on the floor. Not moving and vertical. B2 has his back to A1 who has the ball. A1 jumps into or dribbles into B2's back. There is sufficient contact for a foul. Who's the foul on? My colleagues say the foul is on the defense for not establishing LGP. I think that I have read that all players are allowed a spot on the floor assuming they got there legally.

Redhouse · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 11:03am

I have a PC foul

Redhouse · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 11:07am

Let me add something else. In that situation it makes no difference if the players back is to the ball or they are facing the ball. The defensive player is not attempting to establish a LGP. This would be no different than if a defender is standing in the paint and A1 dribbles in a staight line from his BC to the FC and right down the lane and crashes into B1 torso. I would hope that you have a PC in this situation also.

LarryS · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 11:11am

Sounds like an easy PC foul to me.

What would your colleagues call in this situation. B1 takes up a defensive position down low just outside the lane near the block. A1, who is dribbling in the corner of his front court getting instructions from his coach, suddenly drives toward the basket and runs into B1, who never moves, so hard B1 is driven into the wall at the end of the floor.

In that situation, B1 never established "legal gaurding position" because he was not facing A1.

LarryS · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 11:12am

Redhouse...we must have been typing at the same time.

Great minds think alike...this may or may not explain our posting basically the same thing

Redhouse · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 11:17am

Mine was there first though, so your doesn't count. You can try to use the ole I was typing at the same time trick, but we all know that you copied my answer. LOL, j/k of course.

Yes great minds do think alike

Adam · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 11:31am

There is no way I'm calling a foul on a player who isn't moving.

PA Official · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 06:38pm

Can't be a PC for the reason stated, no legal guarding position.

How about an intentional foul?

WyMike · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 06:50pm

PC. B2 is stationary and is entitled to his position on the floor. It is the dribbler's responsibility to change direction to avoid contact with B2.

10-6-2 A dribbler shall not charge into nor contact an opponent in his/her path unless the space is such to provide a reasonable chance for him or her to go through without contact.

zebraman · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 06:57pm

Quote:

Originally posted by PA Official
Can't be a PC for the reason stated, no legal guarding position.

How about an intentional foul?

You are minsunderstanding legal guarding position. Getting LGP allows a defensive player to do additional things once LGP is established...

The scenario above most certainly could be a PC foul, but it most certainly does NOT sound like an intentional foul.

Every player is entitled to a spot on the floor provided such player gets there first without illegally contacting an opponent.

Z

PA Official · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 07:27pm

I guess my intentional scenario was ramming into someone whose back was turned to you just for the sake of contact. I witnessed someone call an intentional when someone was "taking a charge" and the dribbler picked up the ball, tucked it under his arm and lowered his shoulder. I believe this actually was probably a flagrant foul following a travel.

So, after establishing LGP, what does this allow a player to do? Verticality, I know about. What else?

rainmaker · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 07:51pm

Quote:

Originally posted by PA Official
I guess my intentional scenario was ramming into someone whose back was turned to you just for the sake of contact.

Are you saying the dribbler was ramming "just for the sake of contact", or that the defender had her back turned "just for the sake of contact"?

BktBallRef · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 07:58pm

Quote:

Originally posted by PA Official
Can't be a PC for the reason stated, no legal guarding position.

How about an intentional foul?

It's not always necessary for a defender to have LGP for a PC foul to be called. Why? Not every PC foul is a charging foul. Every player is entitled to a spot on the floor, provided he gets there first and obtans the spot legally. B2 had established himself legally at that spot.

Rich · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 19, 2005, 08:57pm

Quote:

Originally posted by PA Official
I guess my intentional scenario was ramming into someone whose back was turned to you just for the sake of contact. I witnessed someone call an intentional when someone was "taking a charge" and the dribbler picked up the ball, tucked it under his arm and lowered his shoulder. I believe this actually was probably a flagrant foul following a travel.

So, after establishing LGP, what does this allow a player to do? Verticality, I know about. What else?

Move to maintain LGP.

Camron Rust · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 21, 2005, 03:49pm

Quote:

Originally posted by PA Official
I guess my intentional scenario was ramming into someone whose back was turned to you just for the sake of contact. I witnessed someone call an intentional when someone was "taking a charge" and the dribbler picked up the ball, tucked it under his arm and lowered his shoulder. I believe this actually was probably a flagrant foul following a travel.

So, after establishing LGP, what does this allow a player to do? Verticality, I know about. What else?

Be moving laterrly or obliquely away from the opponent at the time of contact, have one or both feet off the floor, jump, turn away, cushion the impact with their arms, etc.