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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 18, 2005, 10:20am
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the original post showed that the ball was being passed at the same time the whistle was blown, not afterwards. . . and again, as you said, this is completely judgement, I just feel like stirring the pot a little today
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 18, 2005, 10:32am
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxsonref
the original post showed that the ball was being passed at the same time the whistle was blown, not afterwards. . .
Exactly. Thanks for making our point.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 18, 2005, 10:35am
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So you are saying that we should have patient whistles and see the whole play before we call something?
I agree!
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 18, 2005, 10:38am
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxsonref
slightly off topic, has anyone actually ever given a shooting foul from halfcourt or beyond? That would be something to see!
No - but I've seen one called. D-I, last game of the regular season, A1 heaves a halfcourt shot near the buzzer, and there's a bit of contact. B1 gets called for the foul, and A1 goes to the line for three shots.

Here's where it gets tricky.

First of all, I don't think the contact merited a foul (I'm a fan for A1) - the game was clearly over, A1 was just having fun, and it was light contact anyways.

Second, the clock read :00.0 when stopped after the whistle (no PT). I thought I heard the horn go off (this was a few seasons ago when the ruling was to go off of the horn, not the light), but we had a system where stopping the clock also cuts off the horn. (Note to AD's everywhere - do NOT get a system like this! The best kind are where stopping the clock after the horn has sounded makes the horn sound even longer.) Of course, there was no way for us to turn the clock back on to check whether any time remained, as that would have caused that miniscule amount of time to expire.

Third, A1 made some of the FT's, which later allowed him to set a school scoring record. Eventually, I think it was moot because we played far enough into post-season that he broke it comfortably, though.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 18, 2005, 11:05am
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxsonref
So you are saying that we should have patient whistles and see the whole play before we call something?
I agree!
No, wrong again. I'm echoing what Snaq already said. Don't penalize the player because he thinks you aren't going to whistle the foul.

Once the foul occurs, you've seen the whole play, everything that needs to be seen.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 18, 2005, 11:13am
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upon further review

Ok I have been thinking, which I know is of no consequence to anyone here, but I do it ocasionally LOL...I had to use the reversey psycology approach....If A1 is dribbling near the three point line and B1 commits a blocking foul, and when we blow the whistle A1 throws the ball up toward the hoop, we have to judge whether or not it was a try...usually it isn't even though the final act appears that way...so with that in mind I guess I can see giving the kid 2 shots even though he passed.....wow it sure is cool over here away from the dark side
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 18, 2005, 11:14am
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So do you blow your whistle at the first sign of contact?

" Once the foul occurs, you've seen the whole play, everything that needs to be seen. "

Have you ever waited when a player has been bumped on a drive to see if he gets past the defender for a layup?

The players should be taught not to worry about what the officals are doing anyway. And as I stated before. . . the call may have been 100% correct. . . the only thing I am saying is that we as officials should work to have that patient whistle, to see the whole play, then to take action on whether a foul is warranted, free throws should be given, or any other penalties should be asessed.

It seems as though too many officials have quick whistles which can get you in to trouble, and I don't necessarily mean from the coaches, but from the way a game should be called in general.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 18, 2005, 11:22am
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxsonref
So do you blow your whistle at the first sign of contact?

" Once the foul occurs, you've seen the whole play, everything that needs to be seen. "

Have you ever waited when a player has been bumped on a drive to see if he gets past the defender for a layup?
paxsonref,
Yes, see the entire play.
Use a slow whistle.

Tony's point was that, with regard to the initial post, most of us have already decided there was a shooting foul already... regardless of Fox time.
mick
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 18, 2005, 11:33am
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D, out of curiousity, how did the coach take your explanation? I'm sure that was a fun exchange

plus are we giving the kid too much credit? did he really have enough savvy to be able to process his thoughts in the air as he was being fouled, thinking. . . . hmmm doesn look like im gonna get a shooting foul out of this since I havent heard a whistle yet. . . . lets see, there is billy over there, I think I'll pass off to him

sorry, can you tell I've got the day off, have nothing better to do, and feel like playing devil's advocate?

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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 18, 2005, 11:38am
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxsonref
slightly off topic, has anyone actually ever given a shooting foul from halfcourt or beyond? That would be something to see!
In 8th grade, I picked up my 4th foul on a 3/4 court shot just before half time. They gave him free throws. Cost us the game.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 18, 2005, 11:39am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snaqwells
Quote:
Originally posted by paxsonref
slightly off topic, has anyone actually ever given a shooting foul from halfcourt or beyond? That would be something to see!
In 8th grade, I picked up my 4th foul on a 3/4 court shot just before half time. They gave him free throws. Cost us the game.

Ouch!

Those damn officials, costing another team a game. . .
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 18, 2005, 11:40am
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxsonref
the original post showed that the ball was being passed at the same time the whistle was blown, not afterwards. . . and again, as you said, this is completely judgement, I just feel like stirring the pot a little today
If he had passed after the whistle was blown, I'd be more inclined to think he was trying to pass the whole time. I'm picturing a play where the player gets hit, the ref holds the whistle for just a second to see the whole play, the player decides in mid-air that he won't get a decent shot and passes to a teammate, the ref calls the foul.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 18, 2005, 11:45am
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxsonref
D, out of curiousity, how did the coach take your explanation? I'm sure that was a fun exchange

plus are we giving the kid too much credit? did he really have enough savvy to be able to process his thoughts in the air as he was being fouled, thinking. . . . hmmm doesn look like im gonna get a shooting foul out of this since I havent heard a whistle yet. . . . lets see, there is billy over there, I think I'll pass off to him

sorry, can you tell I've got the day off, have nothing better to do, and feel like playing devil's advocate?

Cute. It would be more like:

"I'm gonna shoot." "Ouch. no whistle, can't shoot. Where's billy?"
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 18, 2005, 11:46am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snaqwells
In 8th grade, I picked up my 4th foul on a 3/4 court shot just before half time.
Snaqwells,
I tried to average 4-1/2 fouls a game, but I liked to use all 4 quarters.
mick
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 18, 2005, 11:51am
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I hear that billy is quite the ball player too!
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