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-   -   Indirect on head coach or not? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/17704-indirect-head-coach-not.html)

Jurassic Referee Tue Jan 18, 2005 06:38am
Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude
[/B]
That's a battle I'm not going to fight...go to war if you must...and you do have the rules to back you...but I'll stay consistant with what we do around here...warn and send them back to the bench. [/B][/QUOTE]Agree completely. We tell our guys to follow the same procedure as you.

Nevadaref Tue Jan 18, 2005 08:38am
Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Actually, I believe that he did it incorrectly BOTH times, and there is a saying that two wrongs don't make a right.
In fact, if he had correctly called the T the first time it happened, the second one at crunch time probably wouldn't have occurred.
You are probably right about the second one not happening at crunch time.
But I gotta ask ya...do you T up every sub that runs in without being beckoned?
If so...you are going to be giving a T at almost every game around these parts.
That's a battle I'm not going to fight...go to war if you must...and you do have the rules to back you...but I'll stay consistant with what we do around here...warn and send them back to the bench.
Perhaps that's why they keep running onto the court where you are! :)

Mark Dexter Tue Jan 18, 2005 09:14am
Quote:
Originally posted by davidw
Quote:
Originally posted by Camron Rust

I agree that anything less than HS should be very tolerant but at some point, the point has to be made. By the time they're at varisty, they should know this so it should never happen.
And almost never does, except when the games a blow out and in comes those players who rarely get in--that is when you'll usually see it happen.
David, I don't know where you're reffing, but I've done the clock/scorebook for eight years - currently at a D-I school - and even the D-I players need a reminder to wait until they're beckoned . . .

BktBallRef Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:01am
Quote:
Originally posted by gordon30307
Quote:
Originally posted by Camron Rust
Had a freshman game last Thursday. The players just didn't seem to understand. Intercept/Warning 1. Intercept/Warning 2. Intercept/Warning 3....

After several more warnings and no change in behavior, there was a player who ignored my interecept and warning and just kept going right past me (I'm not going to physically restrain a kid on this). I decided to call the T. Caught a lot of moaning and whining from the parents and the coach. Guess what...not one more player did it for the rest of the game. They even helped each other out with reminders. I'll bet it will stick with most of them too.

The most common complaints were "it's only a freshman game" or couldn't you have warned them. I posed a question to the coach: How many times? And, if they don't learn it now, when?

I agree that anything less than HS should be very tolerant but at some point, the point has to be made. By the time they're at varisty, they should know this so it should never happen.
My Daddy said Don't look for trouble cause trouble will find you. Why are you looking for trouble?
Now wait a minute. You're going to allow kids to continuously ignore you all night long? Warn them repeatedly without consequences? I don't think so.

Personally, I'll warn the first player, I'll warn the coach the second time, but the tird, we're shooting 2 and the opponent is getting the ball. If you don't teach the lesson, they'll never learn.

Your daddy is wrong on this one.

BTW, by handling it this way, I don't have a problem with this issue. And I've only called 1 T in 17 years for it.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jan 18th, 2005 at 10:04 AM]

gordon30307 Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:01am
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Actually, I believe that he did it incorrectly BOTH times, and there is a saying that two wrongs don't make a right.
In fact, if he had correctly called the T the first time it happened, the second one at crunch time probably wouldn't have occurred.
You are probably right about the second one not happening at crunch time.
But I gotta ask ya...do you T up every sub that runs in without being beckoned?
If so...you are going to be giving a T at almost every game around these parts.
That's a battle I'm not going to fight...go to war if you must...and you do have the rules to back you...but I'll stay consistant with what we do around here...warn and send them back to the bench.
Perhaps that's why they keep running onto the court where you are! :)
I'd like to be there when you teed the sub running for running on the court without being beckoned in a tight game. And I want to be there when your assigning calls and says. You did what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

davidw Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:10am
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Quote:
Originally posted by davidw
Quote:
Originally posted by Camron Rust

I agree that anything less than HS should be very tolerant but at some point, the point has to be made. By the time they're at varisty, they should know this so it should never happen.
And almost never does, except when the games a blow out and in comes those players who rarely get in--that is when you'll usually see it happen.
David, I don't know where you're reffing, but I've done the clock/scorebook for eight years - currently at a D-I school - and even the D-I players need a reminder to wait until they're beckoned . . .
What I'm saying is those that come in and out of the game alot (starters and those in the early rotations) are used to it (subbing in and out) and usually know to wait. Obviously, you have exceptions. Those that tend not to wait are usually those who do no come in and out as often.

But, everyone, it seems needs a reminder now and again. Prevention is almost always a better thing. Where the warnings are not working, then yes, one needs to go to the next level and assess the penalty. Consistency in this, as in all other phases must be exercised.

Nevadaref Fri Jan 21, 2005 06:40am
Quote:
Originally posted by gordon30307
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:
Originally posted by Nevadaref
Actually, I believe that he did it incorrectly BOTH times, and there is a saying that two wrongs don't make a right.
In fact, if he had correctly called the T the first time it happened, the second one at crunch time probably wouldn't have occurred.
You are probably right about the second one not happening at crunch time.
But I gotta ask ya...do you T up every sub that runs in without being beckoned?
If so...you are going to be giving a T at almost every game around these parts.
That's a battle I'm not going to fight...go to war if you must...and you do have the rules to back you...but I'll stay consistant with what we do around here...warn and send them back to the bench.
Perhaps that's why they keep running onto the court where you are! :)
I'd like to be there when you teed the sub running for running on the court without being beckoned in a tight game. And I want to be there when your assigning calls and says. You did what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Calling that would be considered tame for me. :D
My assignor has long since stopped being surprised by what I call. He even had a standard response for anyone who asked about my decisions, "If he says that's the rule, then that's the rule."

Additionally, I am on the court for many games here precisely because the board and the coaches are well aware of how well I know the rules, and are content knowing that if something odd happens my crew will get it right.

Ref Daddy Fri Jan 21, 2005 09:47am
10 - SECTION 2 SUBSTITUTE TECHNICAL
A substitute shall not enter the court:
ART. 1 . . . Without reporting to the scorer.
ART. 2 . . . Without being beckoned by an official, except between quarters.
PENALTY: (Arts. 1, 2) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. One foul for either or both requirements. Penalized if discovered before the ball becomes live.
NOTE: A single flagrant technical foul or the second technical foul charged to a substitute results in disqualification of the offender to the team bench.

Officials game management -and table management can stop most of this. Suggest warning the coach and table - to hold the players.

Ting is your perogitive.


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