Answer is obvious
 

The answer about liability/responsibility is rather simple. Isn't it?

The officials are responsible for conduct of the game. And, you don't become an official by acquiring a game assignment. You become an official for high school athletics by taking and passing the NFHS Part II test.

A college freshman/sophmore blinged out and wearing sweats is likely not certified. A derelict off the street is likely not certified either. So for my mind it is not a far stretch to say that if I work with someone that is not certified, I am the only one that is responsible, and therefore liable, for the conduct of the game. I am now responsible for the derelict's (or other future society dropout's) method of conducting the game - his calls, his lack of calls, the collisions that happen in his primary area, the fights that will ensue... All my responsibility/liability.

There is no way I would work a high school varsity match with such a derelict. Perhaps a Junior high or lesser but I don't think I would work even a JV match that I didn't know the other official had taken the NFHS test (perhaps not passed but at least taken). Sweats maybe for the lower levels. Jewelry - NO WAY.

You want to work? You come properly prepared, in the correct uniform, and at a proper time. If you don't know the correct answer for those three items, then you don't belong here. I can help you later, and I would be happy to help you, but right now I've got to work this game and I'm working it alone.

I'm glad I know that now. :)

Re: Answer is obvious
 

Actually that is not the case for everyone. To get a license in Illinois they do not give out the Part 2 Exam. They get the Part 1 Exam. And it is not just passing a test to get a license. We have to get a criminal background check. We have to send a copy of a State ID or Driver's License with a picture on it. And finally you need 3 references to verify (school representative, coach or officials) that you have good character or they know you to be an acceptable person to officiate high school sports in Illinois.

Anyone that decides to officiate is responsible for their behavior. You are covered for your actions, not everyone else's actions that officiate. My insurance covers me and my actions, not my partner's actions. If you are working with someone that is not licensed, they are responsible if they get sued and they have no insurance to cover their behavior.

I agree that it would not be ideal, but you are telling me you would walk off and not fulfill your contract or obligation because a partner has a necklace on? For the record this was a middle school game, not a varsity game.

Well there are a lot of things that I would consider not properly dressed, but I am not walking off a game because a partner is not wearing what I feel is the improper uniform. Unless I assigned the game, I would not do much of anything. If I have a contract, the contract binds me to work the game, not decide what my partners do or what they wear.

Peace

Dork partner
 

No Jeff,
and if you showed up looking like that I wouldn't work with you either.

That may be alright for YMCA games where the kids aren't even in uniforms - in which case I might be in shorts also. But it is inappropriate for an organized contest.

Certification is surely different for different locations. I'm glad you can pass the Part I test and that you don't have a criminal background. Show up at one of my games in sweats and bling 5 minutes for game time and prove it to me.

I think you are sorely mistaken about liability and I hope that you never find out that you really are. I'm not a lawyer but for me it is extremely simple to follow the line of responsibility and say that one of the officials is trained and certified, and that particular official allowed someone else who is not trained, and who is not certified to officiate. Therefore, the trained official is ultimately responsible. I think even the simplest of lawyers would also say the assigner has some responsibility for making the assignment.

For you to say that you could pick anyone out of the stands and say "Yeah, come on down and officiate with me. Here's a whistle. I hope your home owner's insurance is good because I'm not covering your butt and your bad calls. You're on your own. When the situations get thick, you're still on your own." And those statements, or that situation, and you would be beyond responsibility for the overall contest is ridiculous. Nothing you can say, will absolve you of your responsibility.

Ooh and Jeff, I always get a really jolly laugh out of your confrontational posts and that you sign off with "Peace." Yeah same to you. Good luck. You're on your own.

Anyone that decides to officiate is responsible for their behavior. You are covered for your actions, not everyone else's actions that officiate. My insurance covers me and my actions, not my partner's actions. If you are working with someone that is not licensed, they are responsible if they get sued and they have no insurance to cover their behavior.

[/B][/QUOTE]We have to list all of our officials with our insurance carrier. There is a specific coda in our policy stating that our coverage for any official working with a non-insured or non-certified official is void. Iow, if I work with an uninsured official, my insurance is void. Our policy specifically says that. Policies are different, Jeff. Just because your policy says certain things does not mean that all policies will say the same thing. Obviously, our insurance coverage is different than your's.

We issue a dress code to all of our officials too. If they don't follow our dress code, they don't officiate.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jan 17th, 2005 at 04:49 PM]

Re: Dork partner
 

I can only speak for the insurance I have. I looked at the exclusions in the policy that I hold. It says nothing about my partner being licensed or not. It only talks about the covered party, which would be me or anyone else that holds the policy. It does not see anything that about who you work with or who you do not work with. I think what I am asking you is very legitimate. How are you going to be held responsible or not covered in insurance when you have no responsibility for who you work with? Even if I show up in the proper uniform does not mean I have a license or not. There are people where I live that have a license for a long time and all of a sudden to not pay their dues or fulfill the requirements to maintain their license (attending rules meetings, attending clinics every 3 years, passing the Part 1 Exam every year). And my state has a website so that we can verify people that are licensed. But that requirement is only for IHSA Member teams, not AAU or Rec. ball or any youth league that applies. No where in the insurance does it put that kind of requirement that licensed officials work games.

I do not pick them. I go to the site and whoever is there I work with. They might not even be the same people that were on my original contract. All I know is the person I am working with has patches and is allowed to work this game. I might say something later to an assignor if I find out or know that someone is not licensed. I cannot verify that until I get home or near a computer. But I do work the game. It is also not like there have never been mistakes at our office either where something is not listed properly on our website.

What did I say to you that was confrontational? I asked you a question for understanding when officials are not the people that decide who works the games. Asking you a question is confrontational? You are talking about an issue in an insurance policy (I hold one too) that I have never seen. I work with insurance in my regular job and I have never heard of such an issue where an unsuspecting individual would know the type of coverage another individual and would be liable for the actions of another human being and they are in the same place. I would understand if an assignor was liable or the school, they have something to do with the official being there. A fellow official is just there doing their job. If I work for a contractor to do one aspect of a job and another person is hired to do another job for the same contractor, why would I be responsible if I am unaware of the expertise or licenses of the contractor that I did not personally hire?

BTW, the "Peace" is just a salutation. It does not mean what it did in the 1960s when people were smoking weed and snorting LSD and acid. It is just a way to say goodbye. It is very commonly used amongst people that are used to current pop culture. It has nothing to do with a war or opposition to the government. It is just salutation.

<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_6_111.gif' alt='' border=0></a>

No Jewelry Here!
 

I wear my jewelry to my games and then I take everything off, including my wedding ring. I am a firm believer that our appearance is so important. I worked with a official just the other day who wore glasses and the first call that he made some folks in the stands started making fun of his glasses. If I worked with a guy who wore a watch I probably would wonder if he has a game afterwards and needs to monitor the time. Remember everyone there are "EYES IN THE SKY" and you never know who is in the stands. So take notice and govern yourselfs accordingly!

Well I do not work for one assignor or association. There is not just a list I or anyone can look at and guarantee everyone they work with is licensed. If we work with someone we know to not be licensed, we can contact the IHSA Office if we are working a HS game. If we are not working a HS game, there is no one to contact. As stated earlier, the IESA only requires one IHSA licensed at there game. If there was an insurance issue with that, I am sure that would not be in writing. But that policy seems more for "quality" purposes, not liability issues. If that was the case almost every assignment and official that works those games would be up for liability issues.

I cannot prevent another official from officiating a game. I can report them to the State or an assignor. But if someone shows up outside of the normal uniform, I cannot prevent them on my own from them finishing the game. I would have to bite the bullet and get through it.

Peace

That was kinda my point, Jeff. There's many different insurance policies out there being used by many different officials groups in many different states. Different officials groups set different policies too on who their members are allowed to officiate with. The laws may vary from state to state also,I think. All any of us can really say with any certainty is what our own insurance plan happens to cover. In this thread, we probably shouldn't be giving anybody outside of our own state or group any advice about what their insurance coverage actually covers. The only really smart thing to do, imo, is to get in touch with our respective insurance providers and let them answer any questions about our own coverage.

I've over-reacted.

Jeff you are arguing different things. Liability and insurance coverage are not the same thing. Having insurance coverage does not remove liability. Insurance coverage just means that (perhaps, if they want to and can't find a legal escape) the insurance company will pay for losses if you are found liable for malfeasance. It does not remove your responsibility for proper conduct of the contest.

The uniform, in a great way, says you are certified and capable to the casual observer. And the lack of a uniform, disregard for timeliness, and disregard for the safety of the contest (the reason for not allowing jewelry) strongly says the opposite; that person is not qualified, not certified, and not capable. Of course these are just appearances - he maybe certified and a dork.

I contend, strongly, that if an official allows someone with this blatant disregard, to participate in the game, that official is liable for the actions of his "disregarding" partner. If it is obvious to the public, it is going to be obvious to a lawyer too.

As an official, you're wearing a necklace, keep it in your shirt. Wedding band, no biggie. I may chastise you for something as stupid and unimportant as a necklace and embarrass that person into removing it. But the blatant disregard of this college student, to work an organized JH game, I would not tolerate. I'm sure you've got 9th graders in Chicago that stuff the ball and play a highly physical game just like here. I'm thinking safety and capability to work the game are important.

I'm done.

Nevermind the fact that you can be sued even if not ultimately liable. You may have substantial legal costs if sued even if you are found not liable and not judgement is found against you. When someone is hurt and they decide to su, they file suit against anyone they can think of...not just those that may really be at fault (if any).

I think you meant this to be tongue-in-cheek, but we have one league here (Independent School League) and we go "patch-less" for these games and we are all patched officials. For all other HS games, we wear the patch.

That's not quite true, Rut. When I officiated soccer, I wore a watch and in most cases, I wore 2. One for the official time (set to run down to zero each half) and one for the length of the game (running time).

I do not work Soccer, so that does not count. :D

Peace

I keep hearing about this patch thingee. Is it something officials wear when they're trying to get curb their addiction to refereeing? :D