To REC or not to REC

[Mike Burns]

Now that the HS season is over (for me anyway), what is your opinion on doing rec league games? I've done a couple already. Let me tell you about my experiences.

The first game I worked with a young guy who had only done 2 or 3 games (Rec games). I feel like we called a strong game, but I'm not ready to "carry" someone like that yet. The second game I worked with an official who is the co-assigner for this particular league. He called a "T" on a player going out of bounds,coming back in and being the first to touch the live ball [(Rule 7.1.1) See, I do read your posts BktBallRef]. He called an over and back when A1 had the BALL and ONE foot in the FC and then went BC. BTW I was T and he called it from L. When I called my first foul and went to the reporting area to signal to the table. He said, "We don't do that here. This is just rec-ball. We don't worry about mechanics or switching on fouls or any of that stuff".

WHAT THE...?!?!

Is this what I should expect, or have I just had a couple of bad experiences?

My thinking was that Rec-ball or summer league play would be a good place for me to work on my "game", but other than just being in more game situations, I really don't see how this is going to help me get any better if I'm not working on mechanics as well.

As always, I appreciate your imput.

[Edited by Mike Burns on Feb 14th, 2001 at 09:46 PM]

[Dan_ref]

Mike, good question. You can work these games to perfect
your mechanics. You can work these games to work on
your game management skills. You can work these games
because you are certain to see everything that can
possibly happen on a basketball court. You can work
these games to "give something back". As a rookie
take advantage of these games but don't become lazy
while doing them because you will learn bad habits.
Use good mechanics, force switches, make good
calls and you'll learn from these games.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Amen Dan.

I look at rec. league games as paid practice. Also, if you are officiating with a young offical (and at my age they all seem young), you can help him or her along too.

In a rec. league game you can see so many weird things that if you blow them there it really won't matter but you will be prepared for when that 1 in a million play happens in a H.S., college, or AAU tournament game and you nail it because you won't be suprised.

[JRutledge]

I am sorry, I find no reason to do these leagues if you are a serious ref. If you have dreams and aspirations for NF ball or college ball, I really do not see the point. You are not going to work with good officials many times (because good officials do not want to do rec ball or have the time). You are not going to see good basketball most of the time. You are not going to see offenses run. You are going to miss out on all the things that a "real" game is going to have, and that is the problem. You might benefit from working on your mechanics, but you can do the same thing by reading and looking in the mirror. I might be the minority on this one, but unless you are in a teaching environment or you are in a camp setting, stay away from these games. This is the place bad habits are established, and all you do is get frustrated, because the players and fans and coaches usually want you to cut corners or not apply all the rules. I could go on and on, but I did them my first year, I do not see myself doing them again.

Period!!!

[steve gillies]

I agree with all these responses, pro's and con's......
It can mess up your mechanics but for a newer official you get some court time if you didn't get a lot of H.S. games.
You get the worst of the cry babies and the most clueless
(rules knowledge) players there are.But it will help you develope your people skills.I've done some of these leagues for a couple years now and most teams and players got to know me and how I officiate a game. They"ve actually come to respect my game and request me for there playoff games.
And the cash is not to bad. Beats flippin burgers....
Try it , if you like , do it....
if you don"t, wait 9 months til next H.S. season....

[Brian Watson]

When I started all I was told by everyone to do was work as many rec,AAU, etc. games as I could. It helped me move up in winter, but I learned NOTHING. I think it was a ploy by the vets to weasle out of wroking them.

There are no mechanics, the Dads errr "coaches" have no clue what the rules are, the kids whine, you're lucky to have a clock or someone who knows how to turn it on or off, there is no real host managment person, and really half or more of the games are not fun to work.

Rec league games should be used in the context of what they are...cash cows for officials. You usually get paid wether there is a game or not, and with a runnign clock it is not very long.

If you want to make some good jack, work 'em. Just don't expect to learn, and forget everything you pick up.

I work a very select one or two a week in summer just to keep in shape and to bolster any argument with my wife that I in fact do not spend all my time on the golf course.

[mikesears]

This year (my 2nd as an official official), I decide to work some Men's and Women's Rec League games for the company for which I work.

BIG MISTAKE for these reasons (in my opinion)!!

#1. Bad habits are easy to pick up. This rec league doesn't switch on fouls, report the # to the table other than just shouting it over to them, running clock-most don't chop in the clock, etc. etc.

#2. Quality of basketball is pretty poor. By the 2nd half, it's just run and gun or fastbreak all the time.

#3. Partner's are usually REC referees who've never looked at a rulebook. They don't understand the Over-and-back rules, the verticality rule, the dribble rule, etc. They consistently whistle violations when play should continue. There's never a pregame to discuss ANYTHING.

#4. Players are whiners. NBA wannabes who think every call should go their way.

Just my experience. Maybe some of the kids rec leagues are a little better but somehow I doubt it because their isn't really any accountability for player or coach problems.

[Kelvin green]

I agree with both sides. Sometimes rec is not a decent experience.
However for a new official you should work as many games as you can. There is nothing that takes the place of being on the floor. The more times you see people running around, trying to set picks, banging on rebounds, guarding each other you should learn something about the game. This is where you can practice reffin the defense and off ball. Sometimes you can ref off ball the whole night because you know your partner is on ball 100% of the time! You learn to blow your whistle, you learn not to blow your whistle. Each time you do it you get more confidence. If all you do is 30 HS games a year you wont get the experiences that you need. AS was mentioned above the more games you do the more likely that there will be something off the wall that happens that you learn to handle. I still ref some "rec ball" a lot of it is kids ball ( a lot of our 9th grade leagues here are run by the rec dept and are games that have good crowds and some fairly decent competition) I would get with your assignor to pick and choose. There are leagues I wont do. There are some men's leagues that you should do. Find the leagues that have the guys who have played D1/II/JC ball, that have the 6'2to 6'6 , 260lb.guys (even if they are a little out of shape) because many of these guys know how to post, push, and set picks etc it will help you HS game.

[JRutledge]

I would agree with everything you said, but just being on the court is not a good enough reason. Yeah, you are on the court, but what are you doing while you are there? One of the main reasons that you do not learn really anything, is because you see things that never happen in HS or JH games. You see hardly any defenses or real offenses run. That puts you at a great disadvantage, because in "real" games you are going to see screens, backdoor, ball movement, zone defenses, set plays and most of all better conduct on the part of players. That is why you should not do them. Because if a kid goes balistic on you and cusses you out, it is going to be hard for the state to justify that behavior in any way and their coaches will probably do something themselves too. If that happens in a rec. game, you might not ever know what the consequences are. All they might have to do is pay a fine and they play the next game. Do that in Illinois, you will definitely miss one game, but it could be more.

I also want to say, I am not talking about AAU, summer leagues or anything that is in the off season. Off season rec. leagues are under greater watch and rules most of the time. The summer leagues I have done have actual coaches present (not that makes a great difference). But because of the coaches being present, they run offenses and defenses, no freestyle basketball. They usually play with other teammates, and if not the kids are all current HS and JH players. This makes a big difference because they realize you might have done their games before or will do their games in the future. And also many of the camps are done with the watchful eye of assignors and evaluators. And everyone working the games have a license to officiate or will when the season starts. No weekend warriors for the most part. And finally, the ones that I have done, are at actual schools, so the behavior in those schools are monitored by individuals that have responsibility other than just running a tournament or league. Now these things might not be the most important of all, but it makes the experience much more of a learning experience than just being on the court. But this is how I feel.

Originally posted by Kelvin green
I agree with both sides. Sometimes rec is not a decent experience.
However for a new official you should work as many games as you can. There is nothing that takes the place of being on the floor. The more times you see people running around, trying to set picks, banging on rebounds, guarding each other you should learn something about the game. This is where you can practice reffin the defense and off ball. Sometimes you can ref off ball the whole night because you know your partner is on ball 100% of the time! You learn to blow your whistle, you learn not to blow your whistle. Each time you do it you get more confidence. If all you do is 30 HS games a year you wont get the experiences that you need. AS was mentioned above the more games you do the more likely that there will be something off the wall that happens that you learn to handle. I still ref some "rec ball" a lot of it is kids ball ( a lot of our 9th grade leagues here are run by the rec dept and are games that have good crowds and some fairly decent competition) I would get with your assignor to pick and choose. There are leagues I wont do. There are some men's leagues that you should do. Find the leagues that have the guys who have played D1/II/JC ball, that have the 6'2to 6'6 , 260lb.guys (even if they are a little out of shape) because many of these guys know how to post, push, and set picks etc it will help you HS game.

[ilya]

i'm not a ref, but from what i see in my rec games, i wouldn't do them if i already reffed HS before..

a lot of the refs i see don't call travels, loose ball fouls, etc.


other than that, if you're Dave, rec ball is a good way of practicing the T signal .
a lot of players in my rec games cuss and piss other team and sometimes official off

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by ilya
a lot of the refs i see don't call travels, loose ball fouls, etc.

Loose ball fouls are only found in the NBA, Ilya. That's probably why your rec officials don't call them.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Loose ball fouls are only found in the NBA, Ilya. That's probably why your rec officials don't call them.

Fouls still occur during loose balls, though.

[SIDRef]

I was watching the UNC Greensboro-Ga. Southen women's game on TV last Saturday.

Late in the game, the trail official was counting 10 seconds in the back court against the press-breaking team. Because this was a women's game with no 10 in the BC, he was corrected by his partners and the team was given the ball back. The coaches and announcers couldn't believe it.

I've been there before: if it's Tuesday it must be women's rules...and I thought the incident was funny at first.

But then, the guy continued to count in the back court on the next two possessions when he was the trail! Thankfully, he didn't have the chance to call another one.

Granted, this isn't top 10 hoops, but these are 2 pretty good lower level D-1 teams.

I'll bet his assignor either chewed him a new one or demoted him.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

You are correct that there is no 10 second backcourt violation in NCAA Women's but there is 5 second closely guarded while holding the ball only everywhere on the court including the backcourt.

[donfowler]

Mike, You can answer your own question by asking yourself "What do I want out of officiating"? (1) If you are in it for the $$, work every game you can get. Get them overwith as quickly as possible. (2) If you are in it for the love of the game, do as many gaems as you want. Enjoy!! (3) If you want to get better, use the games as practice. Have a short pre-game with your partner. He/she may want the practice also. REC leagues are just like any other game----the game doesn't continue until we are ready. Use proper mechanics as much as possible.

FYI. Started officiating in 1973. Have done HS varsity in 7 different states. Been in NC since 1987 and assigners know that I will do games 12 months a year. I help out whenver I can. (Love this game!!) This past weekend I had HS conference playoff Friday night, womens DII game Saturday afternoon, and a 10 yr old AAU tournament Sunday afternoon.