The Official Forum - Out of bounds block-charge call

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Here's another one on those situations I can't find in the rule or case book and looked silly trying to explain my ruling to two coaches who both want it to go their way.

A1 is dribbling the ball from his backcourt toward his frontcourt along the sideline on the table side of the court. B1 establishes a legal guarding position on the same sideline, except one of his feet is on the line. A1 crosses the division line, charges B1, and is called for a player control foul. Since the call was viewed by both coaches, there were some different opinions as to the ruling.

B's coach is glad to take the player control call, but A's coach loudly insists that B1 cannot be in a legal guarding position if one of his feet is out of bounds, therefor the call should be a block.

My explaination to the coaches is that a charge is a foul if it is deliberate even if it occures out of bounds, but I don't have a rule to back it up.

Have any of you ever had this situation come up? Please kick it around and see if you can come up with an explainable ruling.

<html>A's coach loudly insists that B1 cannot be in a legal guarding position if one of his feet is out of bounds, --> So? therefor the call should be a block. --> Why? 

Tell 'im to stick his head in a can of paint!</html>

I guess my book is missing that part of the rule.

Please have that coach fax me a copy of his.

If I was coach A, I would have been upset that you didn't give a T to B1 for voluntarily leaving the court before the contact even occurred. ;)

Seriously, if you are going to rule that B1 was not in legal guarding position because his foot was OOB, therefore putting him OOB, then it all depends on your definition of the "floor", since that is the word used in the legal guarding position rule - NF 4.23.1 - "Every player is entitled to a spot on the floor... and also in the rule regarding player location - NF 4.35.2 - "When a player is touching ...out of bounds..., the player is located... out of bounds."

So I guess the question becomes, is a player who is OOB "on the floor" or not?

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

So I guess the question becomes, is a player who is OOB "on the floor" or not?

Mark,
Base upon the statement in 7.1.1A, where A1 is not out of bounds if he touches B1 on the line, it would seem that there is recognition that B1 may stand OOB and still be on the floor.

mick

Since you can intentionally foul and inbounder, who is OOB, I would say the OOB are is part of the floor.

Quote:

Originally posted by Brian Watson
Since you can intentionally foul and inbounder, who is OOB, I would say the OOB are is part of the floor.

Just to play "devil's advocate", an inbounder is legally allowed (and actually directed) to be OOB as spelled out in the rule book, so I'm not sure that's a valid analogy.

Right, but in looking for a definition of floor, would the rules place someone off of the floor to participate in an inbound play??

Quote:

Originally posted by Brian Watson
Right, but in looking for a definition of floor, would the rules place someone off of the floor to participate in an inbound play??

I'm not saying an inbounder would be considered "off the floor", only that the analogy was not valid.

Actually, an inbounder must be considered "on the floor", since if there is a technical against him, it is not an indirect on the coach for being on bench personnel. There are other examples that support this.

Maybe this would be a valid arguement. If B1 is standing with one foot OOB, he still is not considered bench personnel, so he is considered on the floor.

What do you think?

This debate of floor vs. court vs. in or out of bounds reminds me of a debate a few seasons ago [A1 inbounds (after a B basket and TO) to A2, who is standing around midcourt with 1 foot in and 1 foot out - where should the inbounds spot be, and should any time have run off the clock?]

I think the main rule here is 4-39, the definition of a screen. Nowhere does it say that in order for a screen to be legal, the screener must be inbounds.

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
This debate of floor vs. court vs. in or out of bounds reminds me of a debate a few seasons ago [A1 inbounds (after a B basket and TO) to A2, who is standing around midcourt with 1 foot in and 1 foot out - where should the inbounds spot be, and should any time have run off the clock?]

The inbounds spot is were A2 is standing.